The BBC has pictures of Jewish Rabbis attending this conference. I’m confused, care to explain how this works, Laury?

These Rabbis are opposed to the establishment of the Isreali state except by means of the coming of the Messiah. The Rabbis believe Isreal is begging for another Holocaust because of their religious arrogance. The absurdity of the Rabbis supporting Holocaust Deniers to prevent another Holocaust is symptomatic of this sickening farce.

Hey, look at the bright side Laury, atleast they aren’t claiming that “curry is sunnah.” LoL

It is true Gmasala, I heard Imam Hamza say that calling curry sunna could only be a sign of the apocalypse….on no, wait, that was woman-led prayer.

‘curry is sunnah’, it is true.

The only thing one needs to know that the word sunnah means ‘habbit’ It is devoid of the relgious connotations often associated with the sunnah of the prophet.

My little feral kitty Molé says that Molé sauce is Sunna and she graciously adds in honor of her big sister, Cous, that Cous Cous with Molé sauce is Super Duper Sunna.

Holocaust denial is one of the things about Muslim culture today that I just can’t stand. Every time it rears its ugly head, I ask myself why the hell I continue to identify as a Muslim.

I have noticed that some converts embrace Holocaust denial, the whole zionist conspiracy thing, etc. and it makes me sick. It especially creeps me out when the converts doing that are of German extraction, and they’re older than I am…

Is Islam today a refuge for anti-Semites?

If we do not call each other out on it, we make Islam a refuge for it.

No Laury, Curry is most definetly not a Sunnah. Don’t try to style it out. I don’t think Holocaust denial is a part of Muslim culture, its probably just disgust at the way those assholes in Israel treat Palestinians, it’s politics, pure and simple. Hedonist, don’t be stupid, Islam is at its core a semitic religion. Speaking of which, why the fuck doesn’t anyone call Israel and jewish nutters out on Nakbah denial?
Can’t have it both ways mofos.

‘Is Islam today a refuge for anti-Semites?‘MH

MH, two points:

1-you meant to say ‘muslim culture instead of islam’ in the above.
2-One could find all types of people who belong to a culture yet not acting according to the ‘ideal’ expectations of that culture.

Please understant that the above is no way a defense of the deviants.

heheheheh…

So first we have a Gay Imam..
now, you wanna have Zionists Muslim!

Dream On… Only Holocaust is happening is the one in Palestine!
ohh… but it is only the blood of damn stinking A-rab!

whether the Holocaust exist or not!
We have a right to have a revisionist view about it!
Why is it so evil??? so taboo ??? to review history!
but nooo…
you can make fun of our Great Messengger Muhammad!
you can make a bastard the Great Messiah Jesus!
but never question the Jews holocaust!
it is a great sin among the liberal and hedonist too…

Ahmadenajad is a president a hundred time better than
both War criminal Bush or that Criminal muderer Sharon!

shhhh don’t tell about the indjian were genocide too!

“Is Islam today a refuge for anti-Semites?”

Meaning, is conversion to and/or renewed (and often highly politicized) dedication to Islam a way that some anti-Semites (and for that matter, misogynists and homophobes as well) find to not only hang onto their increasingly unpopular convictions, but to even feel virtuous as they do so?

Some converts are into social justice and are attracted to Islam because of its emphasis on that. But others, unfortunately, seem to find Islam attractive in part because it confirms various types of intolerance and bigotry that they already possess. I know, because I’ve seen it.

"Nakba denial"? People who make that sort of statement clearly don't understand what the holocaust represents. Not just the sheer number of people killed just for being supposedly "racially inferior" (Jewish, Slavic), or for their beliefs (anti-Nazi Christians, Communists, Jehovah's Witnesses), or for being deemed a drain on society (the mentally retarded, the mentally ill), or for being gay or lesbian, or even for the calculated, factory-like way that they were exterminated, but for the mutilating effects it has had not only on those who lived through it, and also on their descendants.

But if we want to also foreground other acts of genocide—and I definitely think that we need to do that—how about those in which MUSLIMS are the perpetrators? Where is all the Muslim outrage about Saddam's genocidal policies against the Kurds, for example? Where are the Muslims who are honestly examining how such crimes happening, and pledging that it will never happen again?

Or is it only for Jews and Christians to ponder such issues as genocide, while Muslims content themselves with using genocides as so many political footballs?

Oh spare me Hedonist, you know exactly what I’m talking about. There are plenty of Jewish people who deny the existance of Palestinians as a people, calling them Jordanians and whatever. It doesn’t make Ahmedinijad’s stupid conference right but dehumization works both ways, so Jews need to quit whining and bitching as if they’re the only group who took it in the ass. Remember what Golda Meir said? “There is no such thing as a Palestinian.” Do some reading before playing political football, son.
You want a Holocaust? Lets talk Native Americans and the transatlantic Slave trade. Lets talk Armenian genocide, which btw Israel does not teach in its schools, for fear of losing the exclusive patent on suffering they’ve been milking. Move on already!

It seems so silly to say that acknowledging the Holocaust would be at odds with acknowledging any other genocide. I have seen many Holocaust survivors speak. Each one of them, unfailingly, speaks with horror that genocides continue and continue, that no one ever learns. Each one of them, unfailingly, spoke more to contemporary genocides than the one they survived. Each one of them, unfailingly, spoke with the hope that telling their story would make others stop.

There will always be those who would cheapen the deaths of all of those who have been destroyed in every genocide. The question here is this: why would any of us be willing to take that low ground as our moral limit?

Nice speech Laurie. Sounds like propaganda to me. Many jewish and Israeli personalities, including survivors insist that the Holocaust is unique event, unlike any other in history. What a crock of racist shit. Yes, the Holocaust was a horrific and terrible event but it was hardly unique. THATS what I call cheapening the deaths of others who have suffered and continue to suffer. If you believe in freedom of speech you shouldn’t oppose any one raising questions about it, no matter how stupid they may be.
Don’t give me this BS that “anti-semeticm” is part of Muslim culture because of a stupid conference in Iran. It doesn’t help that Israelis are acting like a bunch of fucking nazis out of hell either. Get over yourselves.

Kuku:

I fucking hate you already. If I met you at a masjid I’d be tempted to take you outside and break your Jaw. I hate nazis whether they’re wearing turbans or jackboots.

I think the rest of you are partially right and partially wrong. Many holocaust survivors have in fact spoken against similar events. Others have been quite willing to let their ordeal be packaged and used by the Zionist guilt lobby, which essentially says that Israel can do whatever it wants from now to eternity because of the Shoah. At the same time, I feel that it is unproductive to declare the plight of Palestineans to the Holocaust, if for no other reason than less than 1.5% of Palestine’s population has died in the struggle between them and the Israelis, and the Shoah effectively wiped out the European Jews as a people. I am no apologist for Muslim anti-semitism either; none of the Muslim states give a shit about Palestineans, they simply scream “Death to Israel” (and, in many cases, “death to the Jews) as a way to distract their own populations from their tyranny and failings.

MH: Since I’ve already seen what you consider ‘homophobia’ and ‘mysogyny’ (basically, people admitting that the genders are different and that Islam does not support gay sex), and you compare it to world anti-semitism and the Holocaust, I can only come to one conclusion; you have no idea what you’re talking about. Educate yourself beyond a few liberal studies courses.

Moving right along:some folks feel like playing the Victim Queen game for some reason. I realized that even if it’s possible to win this game, which it’s not, you are still a victim. Some people react to victimization by creating more victims; other react by becoming survivors, and working to end the cycle of victimization. The Victim Queen game is impossible to win for that reason; often, in asserting one’s claim to special treatment, one creates more victims, who then enter the contest. Tyrants create their own defeat, and a self-indulgent victim is indeed a tyrant. The way forward is up, and with a hand reaching to help someone else. May we be wise enough to do that one day.

Gypsies were also massacred in the Holocaust, as were Jehovah Witness, homosexuals, the mentally challenged, etc.

There were 12 million victims of the Holocaust, only 6 million were Jewish.

When I bring this up, many Jews seem dismissive.

It would be nice if the Holocaust was not only presented as a Jewish tragedy, because other groups less influential suffered also.

But many Muslims should also recognize that there were Bosnian Muslim Nazis and the Mufti of Jerusalem did have several audiences with Hitler concerning the Jewish settlement question in Palestine during WWII.

But Arabs and Muslims and alike should also recognize the expulsion of 900,000 ethnic Arab Jews in the Middle East after the creation of the state of Israel, this is the Arab “Nakba” we do not speak about.

DA? you hate me?? well what do I care?
just stick to damn truth… unless you r afraid of it?

you guys have a twist sense of logic?
Hating a Jews is Nazi?
hating a Muslims is okay?

Well I never believe in this “chosen” people hoax!
Those that died in Lubnan(Lebonan), Palestine and Iraq are all victim of holocaust!
And that is happening right in front of you!

yet you still denied it and wanna believe the other alledge holocaust?
maybe zundell, Bobby fischer, Irving or even Einstein disagree with you?
Doesn’t matter just shut the f**k up and just enjoy your
sad..sad..sad hollywood movies!

And what did this ahmadenajad ever did to the you??
just make some cartoon and intelectual seminar
Yet you already wanna nuke him?

The true tyranny in this world if you are a Goy
is Israel and its satelite state(America)!

http://www.palsolidarity.org/main/2006/11/18/hebron-day-06/

*and don’t forget to pray daily, you stupid A-rab!

*Baruch Atah Adonai, Eloheinu Melech ha-olam,
shelo asani ishah.

*Blessed are You, O Lord our God, King of the Universe,
Who did not make me a Woman.

*and the full version of the ultimate prayes of the ages.

*Blessed are You, O Lord our G-d, King of the Universe,
Who did not make me a slave

*Blessed are You,O Lord our G-d, King of the Universe,
Who did not make me a Goy!

Israel should abandon political Zionism and grant citizenship to all Palestinians and allow for the Right of Return for those living in refugee camps in the outskirts of Beirut and what not.

Israel should formally annex all the Territories and grant full protection of the law for the nation’s newly acquired Arab citizens.

Israel should do away with public endorsements of Judaism, Judaism should be strictly relegated to the private sphere.

In essence, “the Jewish state” would give way to a multicultural, multiethnic, secular society where Jews are not privileged at the expense of the indigenous population.

This is even better…
here is what you called the cursed and condemned one,
Leader of Iran… ahmadenajad advice to you people!
that is if you are not rabid Zionist!
please enjoy and comment logicly!

In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful

O, Almighty God, bestow upon humanity the perfect human being promised to all by You, and make us among his followers.

Noble Americans,

Were we not faced with the activities of the US administration in this part of the world and the negative ramifications of those activities on the daily lives of our peoples, coupled with the many wars and calamities caused by the US administration as well as the tragic consequences of US interference in other countries;

Were the American people not God-fearing, truth-loving, and justice-seeking, while the US administration actively conceals the truth and impedes any objective portrayal of current realities;

And if we did not share a common responsibility to promote and protect freedom and human dignity and integrity;

Then, there would have been little urgency to have a dialogue with you.

While Divine providence has placed Iran and the United States geographically far apart, we should be cognizant that human values and our common human spirit, which proclaim the dignity and exalted worth of all human beings, have brought our two great nations of Iran and the United States closer together.

Both our nations are God-fearing, truth-loving and justice-seeking, and both seek dignity, respect and perfection.

Both greatly value and readily embrace the promotion of human ideals such as compassion, empathy, respect for the rights of human beings, securing justice and equity, and defending the innocent and the weak against oppressors and bullies.

We are all inclined towards the good, and towards extending a helping hand to one another, particularly to those in need.

We all deplore injustice, the trampling of peoples’ rights and the intimidation and humiliation of human beings.

We all detest darkness, deceit, lies and distortion, and seek and admire salvation, enlightenment, sincerity and honesty.

The pure human essence of the two great nations of Iran and the United States testify to the veracity of these statements.

Noble Americans,

Our nation has always extended its hand of friendship to all other nations of the world.

Hundreds of thousands of my Iranian compatriots are living amongst you in friendship and peace, and are contributing positively to your society. Our people have been in contact with you over the past many years and have maintained these contacts despite the unnecessary restrictions of US authorities.

As mentioned, we have common concerns, face similar challenges, and are pained by the sufferings and afflictions in the world.

We, like you, are aggrieved by the ever-worsening pain and misery of the Palestinian people. Persistent aggressions by the Zionists are making life more and more difficult for the rightful owners of the land of Palestine. In broad day-light, in front of cameras and before the eyes of the world, they are bombarding innocent defenseless civilians, bulldozing houses, firing machine guns at students in the streets and alleys, and subjecting their families to endless grief.

No day goes by without a new crime.

Palestinian mothers, just like Iranian and American mothers, love their children, and are painfully bereaved by the imprisonment, wounding and murder of their children. What mother wouldn’t?

For 60 years, the Zionist regime has driven millions of the inhabitants of Palestine out of their homes. Many of these refugees have died in the Diaspora and in refugee camps. Their children have spent their youth in these camps and are aging while still in the hope of returning to homeland.

You know well that the US administration has persistently provided blind and blanket support to the Zionist regime, has emboldened it to continue its crimes, and has prevented the UN Security Council from condemning it.

Who can deny such broken promises and grave injustices towards humanity by the US administration?

Governments are there to serve their own people. No people wants to side with or support any oppressors. But regrettably, the US administration disregards even its own public opinion and remains in the forefront of supporting the trampling of the rights of the Palestinian people.

Let’s take a look at Iraq. Since the commencement of the US military presence in Iraq, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been killed, maimed or displaced. Terrorism in Iraq has grown exponentially. With the presence of the US military in Iraq, nothing has been done to rebuild the ruins, to restore the infrastructure or to alleviate poverty. The US Government used the pretext of the existence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, but later it became clear that that was just a lie and a deception.

Although Saddam was overthrown and people are happy about his departure, the pain and suffering of the Iraqi people has persisted and has even been aggravated.

In Iraq, about one hundred and fifty thousand American soldiers, separated from their families and loved ones, are operating under the command of the current US administration. A substantial number of them have been killed or wounded and their presence in Iraq has tarnished the image of the American people and government.

Their mothers and relatives have, on numerous occasions, displayed their discontent with the presence of their sons and daughters in a land thousands of miles away from US shores. American soldiers often wonder why they have been sent to Iraq.

I consider it extremely unlikely that you, the American people, consent to the billions of dollars of annual expenditure from your treasury for this military misadventure.

Noble Americans,

You have heard that the US administration is kidnapping its presumed opponents from across the globe and arbitrarily holding them without trial or any international supervision in horrendous prisons that it has established in various parts of the world. God knows who these detainees actually are, and what terrible fate awaits them.

You have certainly heard the sad stories of the Guantanamo and Abu-Ghraib prisons. The US administration attempts to justify them through its proclaimed “war on terror.” But every one knows that such behavior, in fact, offends global public opinion, exacerbates resentment and thereby spreads terrorism, and tarnishes the US image and its credibility among nations.

The US administration’s illegal and immoral behavior is not even confined to outside its borders. You are witnessing daily that under the pretext of “the war on terror,” civil liberties in the United States are being increasingly curtailed. Even the privacy of individuals is fast losing its meaning. Judicial due process and fundamental rights are trampled upon. Private phones are tapped, suspects are arbitrarily arrested, sometimes beaten in the streets, or even shot to death.

I have no doubt that the American people do not approve of this behavior and indeed deplore it.

The US administration does not accept accountability before any organization, institution or council. The US administration has undermined the credibility of international organizations, particularly the United Nations and its Security Council. But, I do not intend to address all the challenges and calamities in this message.

The legitimacy, power and influence of a government do not emanate from its arsenals of tanks, fighter aircrafts, missiles or nuclear weapons. Legitimacy and influence reside in sound logic, quest for justice and compassion and empathy for all humanity. The global position of the United States is in all probability weakened because the administration has continued to resort to force, to conceal the truth, and to mislead the American people about its policies and practices.

Undoubtedly, the American people are not satisfied with this behavior and they showed their discontent in the recent elections. I hope that in the wake of the mid-term elections, the administration of President Bush will have heard and will heed the message of the American people.

My questions are the following:

Is there not a better approach to governance?

Is it not possible to put wealth and power in the service of peace, stability, prosperity and the happiness of all peoples through a commitment to justice and respect for the rights of all nations, instead of aggression and war?

We all condemn terrorism, because its victims are the innocent.

But, can terrorism be contained and eradicated through war, destruction and the killing of hundreds of thousands of innocents?

If that were possible, then why has the problem not been resolved?

The sad experience of invading Iraq is before us all.

What has blind support for the Zionists by the US administration brought for the American people? It is regrettable that for the US administration, the interests of these occupiers supersedes the interests of the American people and of the other nations of the world.

What have the Zionists done for the American people that the US administration considers itself obliged to blindly support these infamous aggressors? Is it not because they have imposed themselves on a substantial portion of the banking, financial, cultural and media sectors?

I recommend that in a demonstration of respect for the American people and for humanity, the right of Palestinians to live in their own homeland should be recognized so that millions of Palestinian refugees can return to their homes and the future of all of Palestine and its form of government be determined in a referendum. This will benefit everyone.

Now that Iraq has a Constitution and an independent Assembly and Government, would it not be more beneficial to bring the US officers and soldiers home, and to spend the astronomical US military expenditures in Iraq for the welfare and prosperity of the American people? As you know very well, many victims of Katrina continue to suffer, and countless Americans continue to live in poverty and homelessness.

I’d also like to say a word to the winners of the recent elections in the US:

The United States has had many administrations; some who have left a positive legacy, and others that are neither remembered fondly by the American people nor by other nations.

Now that you control an important branch of the US Government, you will also be held to account by the people and by history.

If the US Government meets the current domestic and external challenges with an approach based on truth and Justice, it can remedy some of the past afflictions and alleviate some of the global resentment and hatred of America. But if the approach remains the same, it would not be unexpected that the American people would similarly reject the new electoral winners, although the recent elections, rather than reflecting a victory, in reality point to the failure of the current administration’s policies. These issues had been extensively dealt with in my letter to President Bush earlier this year.

To sum up:

It is possible to govern based on an approach that is distinctly different from one of coercion, force and injustice.

It is possible to sincerely serve and promote common human values, and honesty and compassion.

It is possible to provide welfare and prosperity without tension, threats, imposition or war.

It is possible to lead the world towards the aspired perfection by adhering to unity, monotheism, morality and spirituality and drawing upon the teachings of the Divine Prophets.

Then, the American people, who are God-fearing and followers of Divine religions, will overcome every difficulty.

What I stated represents some of my anxieties and concerns.

I am confident that you, the American people, will play an instrumental role in the establishment of justice and spirituality throughout the world. The promises of the Almighty and His prophets will certainly be realized, Justice and Truth will prevail and all nations will live a true life in a climate replete with love, compassion and fraternity.

The US governing establishment, the authorities and the powerful should not choose irreversible paths. As all prophets have taught us, injustice and transgression will eventually bring about decline and demise. Today, the path of return to faith and spirituality is open and unimpeded.

We should all heed the Divine Word of the Holy Qur’an:

“But those who repent, have faith and do good may receive Salvation. Your Lord, alone, creates and chooses as He will, and others have no part in His choice; Glorified is God and Exalted above any partners they ascribe to Him.” (28:67-68)

I pray to the Almighty to bless the Iranian and American nations and indeed all nations of the world with dignity and success

None of the points made here—whether they are valid or not—address why one would support others in denying a historical event.

Maybe your points would make sense if there weren’t jews at this conference Laury. I’m curious, are you Jewish?

I nominate Ali Eteraz for the Peter Sellers role :)

Laury is Jewish, she converted to Islam.

A Muslim of Jewish heritage is still a Jew in my book because culturally and ethnically they are Jewish.

There are various ethnicities in world Jewry.

GMasala,

What is your ethnicity?

I know your nationality, but what is your lineage?

I’m Mexican and Persian (Iranian and Afghan).