Update again: I'm gonna go ahead and unpin this a day or so earlier.
Update: Looks like 5 terrorists might still be at large. I'm pinning this story and its related comments to the top of the front page until Friday.
Update: Final death toll seems to be around 172.
Update: AP is reporting 101 killed.
CNN, MSNBC and others are reporting "Fedayeen-style" attacks in Bombay. Several gunmen armed with automatic weapons have hit hotels and cafés in Bombay, throwing grenades, shooting people and taking hostages. Foreigners appear to be the biggest targets, as hostage takers were demanding British and American-passport holders come forward.
CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/11/26/india.attacks/index.html
MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27928718/
Fox: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,457885,00.html
Delicious
Digg
StumbleUpon
Reddit
Facebook
Technorati
The attacks seem very organized and they are looking at possible Islamicists as the perpetrators. The hotel is a known place for high government officials to stay, the Taj Palace so it seems it was focused on Westerners. One terrorist is dead, and other hold up with possible hostages in the hotel. Kasmiri's? Islamacist? Hindu's? What will Obama's response be, or rather George Bush?
The name of the Group is Mujahadeen? claimed responsiblilty.
Anti-Muslim attacks will most likely commence in India as "retribution" for Muslim extremism.
This madness has got to stop!
Anti-Muslim bigotry and Islamophobia is growing in non-Muslim Asian countries as these nations now confront Muslim extremists and separatists in territorial disputes.
Thailand, with a small Malay Muslim minority in the south, is now having some Buddhists demanding that the state constitution declares Buddhism the "national religion" and thereby, relegate Islam to a secondary status with other religions practiced there by minorities such as Christianity, Hinduism, and Chinese traditional religions.
The group claiming credit is calling themselves the 'Deccan Mujahideen'. I'm sure there will be an anti-Islamic backlash in the country, as there was in this country and in every nation that has seen such incidents.
As for the issue of bigotry, well, the only way to avoid that is for the Muslim population in India to come forward and police their own. All too often, it's an 'open secret' in our communities as to which elements among us support such things, and unless we clamp down on our own extremists, i think it's awfully hard to cry foul when the backlash begins.
This isn't to say that the backlash is acceptable - in a moral and just society, the facts should reign supreme, and rational arguments should hold sway over the masses. We shouldn't tar and feather an entire faith for the actions of a minority that is violently expressive.
That's the rational approach to incidents like these.
But when was the last time you saw the masses being rational about things like this?
In reply to "The group claiming credit is"
Submitted by Sohail Mamdani on Thu, 2008-11-27 02:22.
I'm sure you are not a Muslim...and you're just one of the an anti-muslim elements out there on web and elsewhere trying hard to make a bad name of Muslims. I'm not making any unfounded claims...if you want, i can give you clear examples....You're faking your identity to make it believable and coming from a community member itself whatever you say in self-admission about Muslims.
I just saw your comment being reported on timeofindia.com article and it sent a cold chill up my spine and now I'm here just to reply to you. I'm not sure about the credibility and intentions of this blog as there are numerous anti-muslim propaganda sites churning out 24x7 articles trying to mar the image of Muslims.....Your comment "All too often, it's an 'open secret' in our communities as to which elements among us support such things, and unless we clamp down on our own extremists, i think it's awfully hard to cry foul when the backlash begins" is what made me sure about your being anti-muslim......Why should muslims engage in violence? Are they fighting a freedom struggle? No...our poor masses are 24x7 working hard to earn their living...our youth are trying hard to get higher education and uplift our society... this attempt by some anti-muslim extremists to weaken us economically and psychologically is part of a bigger conspiracy. We're using our energy to defend ourselves all the time which we could use for our development instead.
By these words of yours, you're justifying the backlash like Gujarat genocide and at the same time you're saying there are many people who support violence and they're discussing it among Muslims all the time. If it's not your figment of imagination, this means you've witnessed your friends and relatives doing this. Why don't you just report them them to police and clamp down your own extremists as you suggest. What do you think we are fools and believe a blog entry. I personally know at least 100,000 Muslims from all Indian cities and abroad and I've never seen them planning a blast or rejoicing a butchery like Godhra train-burning. I request you and your men to please leave us alone and let us live peacefully.
In the end I must admit that there are terror attacks perpetrated by Muslims, but they are not Muslims...they're just butchers....and at the same time, there's no doubt that there are several blasts and terror attacks that are a handiwork of Hindu-extremists as have come under scanner recently unjustifiably pinning the blame on Muslims. Muslims cannot in any way be held accountable for the butchery of a few as they cannot be for acts of thefts, rapes or other crimes by Muslims. These acts will always be perpetrated by a few miscreants from every community. Terror attacks cannot just because they're acted out in the name of Islam simply reverse this fact.
Bollocks, mate. I am a Muslim. Beyond those words, I can't possibly 'prove' to you that I am Muslim, or that I am who I say I am, but I will meet with and speak with any person who wishes to do so if they so choose.
You're contradiction yourself.
a) I'm not justifying backlashes that take violent form, like the Gujarat Genocide. I hate Narendra Modi and think he's a criminal who should be tried at the Hague for crimes against humanity.
b) I have indeed seen many people in my community who rejoiced at 9/11, called it a triumph of Islam and much worse. I didn't 'report' them because I live in America, which is a free country, and saying such things isn't a crime. I can, however, use my own freedom of speech and condemn them for saying these things. This is how I clamp down on the extremists I see in front of me. I speak. I write.
Understand that when I say it's awfully hard to cry foul when the backlash begins, I'm not suggesting that we excuse Gujarat and incidents like it. I'm referring to the general hue and cry that ensues in the aftermath of attacks like the ones in New York, Washington and Mumbai. It's right and true to cry foul over violence, but it's awfully hard to cry foul when a columnist or politician says something disparaging about our faith and followers after an act like this.
no comment
To the terrorists from Deccan Mujahideen (or wherever/whatever) who ruined a perfectly good day in Bombay: Hey Chickenshits! If you can't figure out a way to solve your issues without resorting to violence, shove those guns up your arses and push down on the triggers with your toes. Trust me, that bullet will be much more at home there than in the bodies of innocent people.
I pray Indians do not retaliate but that there is a call for peace. Now is the time for Muslims everywhere to March in the streets, on university campuses and speak out for peace, and let the public know that we do not support this type of butchery and hatefulness. That this is not Islam. This is selfish, and this is brutish behavior. Allah
save us from ourselves.
You know, as a hindu I'm happy to see this site. It's high time muslims spoke up against these atrocities and rally against them.
I am in Indian Hindu living in USA. During my visits to India, I have noticed the many Muslims living in India are openly Pro PAK. Infact, they appear to discriminate just as much we Hindu feel betrayed by tseeing Muslims harboring these feelings.
I give you a simple example. We had a Muslim driver for the tour package. For the Lunch, Dinners and Snacks, ,he would take us only to Muslim shops/ restaurants, even if they are way out of way. At first, I didn't notice, but my wife picked it right away. If we were passing by a beautiful Mundir and wanted to see it. He would ignore our requests by making some excuse - like we can see it on our way back etc, while he very well new that we will never pass by those temples again. Whenever I would praise India, he would wink with "don't give a dam attitude.
I had given him the benefit of the doubt, but I was extremely disapointed by his actions.
One thing that always bothers me and my Hindu friends great deal, Muslim leaders never come out and condemn like Bombay attack. They would give a list of miles long for all the complaints, but never would they accept that there are rouge elements in their community.
I have just come across this site, from a link in story in internet. I don't know how real this group his. Titles like "Progressive Islam" sound so foreign to those of us who have experienced terror. There appear nothing progressive about Islam - only violence and intolerance.
Before, Indian Muslms complain about how they are being treated in India, they should spend few minutes studying how minorties (even majorities) are being treated in PAK and other Muslim controlled countries. There is not a single Muslim controlled democratic country with freedom of religion and specch. So what is progressive about Islam is a great mystery to most of us.
I am just hoping that this site is sponsored and funded by sincere and honest people, and not an ISI funded diversion and public relations stunt. I will read its content on a regular basis to see how it develops.
I do want to give Muslims the benefit of doubt, but seeing them constantly involved in terrorist acts give me lot of hesitation. I am sure I am in a good company.
When I told my white collegue that I just read in internet about Bombay attack and how innocent people were showered with bulltets. Without a second of hesitation, he remarked, the must be Muslims.
Can you blame him for thinking like that?
I can't deny your allegation.To some extent you are right. Yes, some Indian Muslim's are pro-Pakistani with the help of them troubles are organized. They are few and behaves as they are not willing to understand the real issues or brain washed by others. It may be their manners are such due to there personal experience. If we go through statistics, before 1992 , the problem was confined with in Kashmir. But babri mosque demolition gave a chance to these perpetrators to influence innocent and unemployed Muslim for anti national activities. Unpunished crime inspire others to do crime. Today's situation is like a tough of war. There are so many Hindu organization in our country that openly oppose Muslim. If Muslim do any thing they get the reason and vice versa. Look at out political parties. Instead of working towards harmony and peace they are playing communal cards. For some filthy gain they are sacrificing nations' peace. We lack good politician. As a Muslim my personal experience are also better. But I am proud that I have some good friends. Economic condition of Indian Muslims are too bad that is also a major reason. There are lots of example where Muslim candidate are rejected from jobs. If you go to a rent house , very few place are there. This misunderstanding we have to remove.
I don't blame your white colleagues, they are far from real ground. They have the authority to wipe out whole generation with out any reason (for oil). when they are affected or fear to be affected , Muslim become terrorist.
What ever may be , it is time to stand together , not to blame each other.
This site is SO not funded or supported by the ISI!
I can't blame you for your skepticism, but I promise you, this site has no connection to any governmental agency anywhere. I pay for this site out of my own pocket every month, we have no advertisers and the content comes from independent readers and contributors. Anyone who wants to, can blog on the site, and I regularly go through individual blog posts and promote stuff to the front page.
We have a loose affiliation with Muslims for Progressive Values, but that affiliation does not affect our content. Today, I saw some comments that range from ultra-liberal to ultra-conservative - all those voices are welcome as long as there is a measure of civility and we avoid ad hominem attacks.
no comment as people are more interested in expressing hatred than engaging in any dialogs for mutual cooperation.
I am in Indian Hindu living
Submitted by Indian on Sat, 2008-11-29 23:34.
a) Let me congratulate you on your concern for whole humanity by retelling this "simple example"....and your genius in guuessing what this muslim driver was up to. He really must be a terrorist in the making...God forbid, he REALLY took you to muslim shops/restaurants!!!....what a disgusting and heinous crime....you should have tipped the police on him, he could have been killed in an encounter and maybe you could help prevent the recent Bombay catastrophe. This is not "simple" my friend....As I read your comments, i too recalled some incidents of my own...only last year my mother visited a hindu neighbour, but she was very callously rebuked at the doorsteps and asked to leave their house imm. because she, being a muslim, couldn't enter her house during puja/Hindu worship time...My mother was near crying due to this insult....even the neighbor never apologized.....but my mother and the lady are still friends...even i didnt mind it much till now when u made me remember this....i should have written a blog on this at that time and warned every muslim.
How generous of you and your kind to give that filthy fellow and his kind "a benefit of doubt" All muslims should be obliged to you and write you a letter of thanks....I remember another incident...last year i was in Dubai sharing a flat with a Hindu friend...We used to take lunch together outside...once while we're ready to go, he realized i was wearing a muslim skull-cap....he asked me to remove it and refused to dine with me unless i did so...it made him feel a little embarrassing, where? In dubai, an islamic state...so many times, my Hindu friends have asked me to remove my skull-cap when i visited their homes and went to their parties, and you know this narrow-minded muslim compatriot of your here complied all the time, compromising with my beliefs just to keep them happy...but when the same was demanded by my father on many occasions, because he felt shame to take with him a man wearing a muslim cap to his Hindu friends's parties..... i never complied....I fought for my rights and my dignity with my parent....
My friend, who are you trying to fool by citing these small incidents...do we cohabit this world with angels of pure hearts/humans? .there r numerous stories of such Hindu atrocities, if they r indeed atrocities in ur eyes, if u want me to ...
b) "muslim leaders should apologize" Great advice !!!where are they? we've no leader...we dont have any Modis, Advanis, Bal thackerays, Praveen togadis who can openly incite violence and then justify cold-blooded murders on TV....So u think we dont apologize enough..? Huh!!! well, what do you think we have become nowadays other than a community of apologizers...24x7 trying to convince other communities to leave us alone in peace...But i know and listen Mr. Mamdani, others will never understand...why? bcoz they dont want to...
c) it does seem this is an ISI funded bolg just like thousands of others on web...ISI is very smart...
d) Suppose your " white" employer comes to you and says that "I just read in internet about a whole country/vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan was attacked and how thousands innocent people were showered with not bulltets, but missiles. Without a second of hesitation, will you remark, that they must be Americans? Do you have the courage and you Mr. Mamdani, so called honest man, who's apologizing to the whole world and creating a community of apologizers out of muslim community.....Who gassed and butchered 50,000 jews, muslims or christians...who burned churches and raped nuns, muslim countries/India?Who killed 50,000 jews in holocaust...muslims/christians?
Suppose your " white" employer comes to you and says that "I just read in internet about a 10,000 Muslims burnt, women raped with the aid of police, churches burnt, nuns raped and how innocent people were showered with not bulltets, but swords and trishuls and fire. Without a second of hesitation, will you remark, that they must be Hindus?
e)You must have worked hard to make ur sentences, please next time make sure to do a little research too...no fools are sitting this side...
f)50,000 Hindus climbed on an old structure called Babri Mosque and destroyed it in front of govenment, police....who's biggest terrorist ? Hindus were trying to break mosque with hands and legs also...height of hatred and violence....Is anybody here who can condemn this?....
1.This was long enough the first time you posted it- if you have something to add, post only the new material.
2. ISI funded? Don't make me laugh. PI.org is North-American based and focused, we're not big or bad enough for it to be threatening to any international interests, and we don't focus on South Asia all that much.
3. And I do thank Sohail for all the hard work he does on this site- and you have no right to label him as not Muslim merely for differing with you politically.
From my child hood,I always praise a muslim man. Because in my home state they used to be so gentlemen. They include those fish and muttton vendors. They talk my regional language with little mix of hindi. They are also very fond of my father. I dont hesitate to call them more sobber than our neighbour uncles. I grew up with that belief. I never believe that an Indian muslim is any way helping those mindless jihad groups because they are realy nice guys.
After my college I came to Bangalore, a muslim majority area (atleast some parts). I use to have argument with one of my coulige abt terrorism and the link of muslim brothers in our country. He used to say only one line and I had no answer: All muslims are not terrorist but all terrorists are muslims.
But after so many terrorist activities in India..I am really surprised not a single muslim leader came out and condemned it (except some celebrities and journalists). Why the major part of the community is silent? What happened to the people who openly supported those culprits who are accused in the Delhi blast?
It is realy heart breaking to know that Indians are involved in the Mumbai attack. The terrorists have no religion.. I know that. But in our country a hell lot of people are there who will politicise thses issues to gain their personal motive. So why give them a chance to do so??
Please do something before a concious and true Indian like me will consider an avarage muslims as the enemy.. Plz do...Act right now..
no comment
It is wrong to say that all terrorists are Muslims. However, a vast majority of people who are involved in killings in the name of religion are indeed Muslims. It is very important that progressive muslims take some concrete steps to oppose these terrorists. Condemning them is not enough. Saying that terrorist's Islam is not real Islam is also not enough. How about skipping a few Friday prayers and saying them in privacy of your home and explicitly declaring that you are skipping congregational prayers to register your protest? That may be a good beginning.
Neel
IMO Indian-born Muslims needs to come forward & participate in the main line decision making and policy creation of the country's future. Since India is having much higher literacy rate than any other South Asian country, it is imperative that the Muslim population continues on the path of national success by educating their new generations. Also, Indian-born Muslims should transform themselves by putting country first, rather than religion first. In no way would I like to compare Indian-born Muslims with Pakistanis. The clear difference is education and social freedom. No way should Indian minorities be treated like how Pakistan treats it's minorities. It's scary.
At the end of Mumbai terror attacks, it is very clearly evident that Pakistani Muslims were involved in this insane act of murder. We Indians need to be careful about the fact that this is a crime done by Pakistanis, not by Indian Muslims. So there is no reason to vent frustration on innocent Indian national Muslims. That would be pure hate crime.
This is not a time for revenge on innocent people, nor a time of blaming it on religion. This is a problem of wrong teachings, wrong preachings, wrong leadership, wrong thought process, wrong directives. All that began in Pakistan, and it will end in Pakistan.... the center of world terrorism. House of Taliban, Bin Laden, LeT, and many more evil names. It's that country existence that is causing problems to several others, including India. There will be a moment in time when the world will get fed up of Pakistan. That would be indeed a time to see how that terror haven survives.
I wish the people of Pakistan realize the trouble they are getting into.... Terrorism will only mean destruction to others as well as themselves.
Jai Hind.
Just wanted to congratulate you on this site. Now I can point to friends when we argue, that Islam is a religion like any other. We do have good and sane people and when they come together everywhere, the power can reach places we cannot even dream of today. I hope that Muslim or Hindu, all practitioners of terror/religion based intimidation/politics be dealt with immediately and harshly. That is the only solution to this mess. India is going in the perfect direction financially and we cannot let anything set us back. I also pray and hope that there will be no stupid backlash against innocent Indian Muslims for what the crazed LeT militants did. Kill the killers, not any arbid person; we have to be better than them. I just do not get it. Since childhood, my best friends have been Muslims and Christians and they were all decent human beings with positives and negatives like the rest of us. Well cultured and well mannered, they have nothing to do with this darkness. Just like I, as a normal Hindu have nothing to do with the maniacs in Gujarat and Malegaon. We will defeat these lunatics both on the Hindu and Muslim sides. I have half a mind to start an organization which takes out these dumb losers on both sides of the fence. Long live Muslims and long live Hindus and Christians, Buddhists and Zulus for that matter. Just as long as they are humans first. Otherwise take them out. And perform pest control on them like the insects they are.
The name Progressive Islam made me think for a while whether Islam was not progressive that now we have to make it progressive. Actually going through the basic teachings of Islam shows that Islam is the most progressive religion I will give one example : Islam says that non Muslims living in an Islamic state will have complete freedom of speech and work and will be protected by the state & it says that even if all the Muslims are killed else where in the world not a single non Muslim can be killed by anyone in an Islamic state. So in my opinion Islam is the most progressive religion but probably with the worst followers who don't know what actually Islamic teachings are.
Rest I will discuss next time.
SURA 1 XLVII.--MUHAMMAD [XCVI.]........."Believers! if ye help God, God will help you, and will set your feet firm:But as for the infidels, let them perish: and their works shall God bring to nought"......
There are more instances of such suras @ http://www.wvinter.net/~haught/Koran.html
I am non-religious but feel fairly close to hindu or buddhist philosphy (defintely no tolerance for HIndutva), I believe all religions have some form of "blood" in their hands especially when verses such as the one above are taken out of context and interpreted literally. It is therefore very easy to contradict a statement such as "Islam is the most progressive religion"...For every sura that appeases and protects the kafir/infidel there are maybe 10 others that would banish him from the face of the earth and heaven with his throat slit!
I think Islam needs a charismatic leader who can unite its various factions, purge it of its suras that breed hatred of infidels, sexual discrimination and hubris of world hegemony and instead focus on its humanistic message (ie. all humans are equal)....I sincerely hope that websites such as this one can start spreading a message of a more progressive Islam without proclaiming it to be the best or THE religion.
Maybe in time such a muslim leader would emerge and help make this world a safer place and maybe then Islam can reclaim (let's not forget that during the the Dark Ages, the Islamic world was enlightened) the mantle of being truly progressive....Until then the jury is OUT.
ORIGIN OF ISLAMIC TERROR
I am a Hindu, but I know a lot about the Muslim community... it is adorable and people I know are some of the most genuine people in the world.
But, there are some areas where they are moving in a wrong direction. The contribution of Muslims towards the tragedy can be explained as follows :
Muslims get too impractical at times, when it comes to Islam. It is a pity that the true senses of Islam like purity and simplicity are just on paper. Young, tender minds are brain washed for years in training camps in Pakistan and Afghanistan. They are made to believe that the entire world and all religions are anti-Muslims, like India, and all western countries. Time-to-time they are told half-true and fabricated, and they are made to believe that they have to fight for the very existence of their religion. All this, when there is not much hatred in the west at all.... (and the one that is there, is only because of the extremists).
So what do you expect from these uneducated people who have no exposure to the outside world, but are trained to terrorize since birth? Is this not ruining lives? Above all these people, there is a mullah, who reports to another one, leading to the most wanted people in the world. They are the ones who make money of all this and are worshiped by all their misled disciples.
Today, Islam remains a religion that has lost contact completely with its origins and is controlled by a cluster of Mullahs and mujahideens who create thousands of 'jehadis' who literally want to end the world. We of course know that this is not the true face of Islam, but it is sadly the most dominant one.
How can a Muslim work to rebuild its lost glory? Simple. Through rational and practical means. Educate the young people so that they do not fall prey to cheap business of terrorism. Muslims must know that there is more to islam than just praying 5 times a day and sacrificing a goat. It is to be a responsible, educated and rational human being. And to not be so naive about allah. Only you Muslims can remove the dirt settled on Islam, by educating your brothers and opening their eyes. Till then I will only feel sorry thousands of wasted lives.
This is the only solution of all the security problems faced in this world!!
Gosh, thanks for the condescending commentary.
Cypress. I can *kinda* give you points on tone - this gentleman was being a bit condescending - but he's not wrong, is he?
Aside from the general observation that Muslims are terrorists and "This is the only solution of all the security problems faced in this world!!", he is in general correct: Muslims need to learn that orthopraxy/doxy isn't Islam and not raise our children up to be cowbo... err, I mean jihadis.
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
But the attitude is a serious problem. Muslims aren't the center of world terror... there are Hindu terrorists, Buddhist terrorists, Daoist terrorists, secular terrorists... I think nationalist terrorism is the worst problem in the world, actually. It took 9/11 to eclipse the worst terror attack in our history, which was a horrific attack by Christian white supremacists.
Hindus perpetuate a racist caste system that favors lighter-skinned Indians over darker-skinned Indians.
A Hindu in India recently married a dog, a canine, for some odd and bizarre reason.
Hindus introduced the suicide bomb in Sri Lanka, and have used this tool of terrorism against the native Singhalese Buddhist peoples of Sri Lanka.
There are plenty of ignorant Hindus, just like there are plenty of ignorant Muslims.
I'm a Muslim, and let me remind the Hindus on this site one thing, Muslims are first and foremost the primary targets of terrorism since 9/11. Most victims of Muslim violence have been fellow Muslims.
Islam is a simple faith, one which stresses absolute monotheism, the tenets of Islam are not that demanding.
You have some clerics, who feel threatened by modernity.
However, this Western Persian Shia Muslim is not threatened by inquiry, including questions about Islam.
I do not worship Muhammad, I see him as a guide, not as a "paragon" as some Muslims have recently viewed the Prophet.
I have encountered Muslim idiots, but I know how to shut their traps.
This is disturbing... only Pakistani terrorists dare to do this in Mumbai terror attacks on innocent Jewish people. How could someone even have the sense of doing such a crime? Islam is a simple faith huh?!?! What rubbish.... This is what Islamic terrorist have done to the common people in Mumbai attacks....
Read this article and decide for yourself what these LeT trained cowards did -
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/30mumterror-doctors-shocked-at-hosta...
"The doctor who had also conducted the post-mortem of the victims, said: "Of all the bodies, the Israeli victims bore the maximum torture marks. It was clear that they were killed on the 26th itself. It was obvious that they were tied up and tortured before they were killed. It was so bad that I do not want to go over the details even in my head again," he said."
For all those who are a part of these crimes and a member of LeT, Qaida, or any other Islamic terror organization ..... only one word fits all of them....... "PIGS who only know how to practice terrorism".
Look, the Blame Game isn't helpful in the least. Investigation is. The crimes were heinous, the perpetrators evil, but unless and until we are able to avoid old prejudice, we're not going to do anything but bicker. The bombing in Oklahoma City was "clearly the work of Middle Eastern terrorists"- more like Midwestern terrorists with exotic Eastern names like Timothy McVeigh. Now is the time to grieve, to pray for comfort and the knowledge needed to hunt those evil creatures down.
I am an Indian...I think the same way we respect our friends father for being his father and he does the same, believe the same ideology should govern religous being and we should learn to respect each others GOD and RELIGION. I have friends in all communities, and I must point this out that all are not alike, there are good and bad every where, its high time we all should stand as decent human beings and we need support from political fronts (the most crooked lot) We need a national integration revolution. EDUCATION has to reach all, literacy alone doesnt help and illiteracy makes things worse. High time friends lets all stand to a cause, to a common objective, peace full co-existence, Lets unite...We can not commit same mistakes again and again...I appeal all bodies/ forums to stand one for ourselves, a better existence.
Mumbaidesi - what's your response to the genocide in Gujarat? How do you feel about Narendra Modi?
Sohail -- I don't feel any good about Narendra Modi either. Neither do I have any sympathies for this 3rd grade politician. Compared to the 10 paki terrorist who sprayed bullets in various places in Mumbai on 26th Nov - Narendra did not directly participate in the cold blooded murder. Yes, it's an understanding & perception that Narendra instigated or may have orchestrated those Gujrat incidents. That is even not acceptable. Narendra came to Mumbai to give a press conference in front of Trident Hotel on these days. I would have pushed him inside Trident to face the terrorists and get caught in the ambush.
All that is going on between Hindus and Muslims, with the strong ingredients of jihadi terrorists from Islam extremist, it's all a creation of politicians since independence of Ind/Pak. The common man & democracy of India does not agree or support to all the crimes going on. As you can see how the people of Mumbai are angry on politicians - including Narendra Modi, it would be appropriate for the public to kill such politicians in open, if they continue to interfere in the safety and interest of the common people. Whether the military rulers of Pak want to continue having their land as a haven for terrorist and extremist - is their choice. I won't speak for Pak, nor am I interested in speaking for Pak.
Pakistan is a failed attempt at political Islam.
The vision of a secular Pakistan with a Muslim majority but sanctuary for Hindus, Sikhs, and Christians never materialized.
During the time of partition, 1/3 of Pakistan was non-Muslim and now that percentage is 3% (mostly Christians living in the Sindh).
Pakistan's claims to Kashmir merely because the state is majority Muslim and adjacent to Pakistan, is baseless in my opinions.
Muslims are divided in a myriad of ways.
Pakistan and India were on the brink of war earlier in this decade, when the Indian Parliament was attacked.
Pakistan is trying to deflect blame for these attacks, since Pakistan is now seen like Saudi Arabia even in Western circles, an untrustworthy "ally" in the War on Terror.
This Muslim has no love for Pakistan, and with some Afghans, we will say "Hindustan Zindabad" and "Fuck Pakistan."
However, blaming all Muslims for terrorism and not looking into Hindu terrorism in Sri Lanka or Western and Northern India, is absurd.
Hindu mobs have killed Muslims in Mumbai indiscriminately for no cause, reason, or rationale.
This Muslim will not apologize for communal violence in India.
First and foremost, I was born in the United States, I was raised in this country and I can pass as "white" due to my fair skin complexion.
My mother is often the object of desire for Hindu male co-workers who are married with children.
They love her large eyes, profile, long dirty blonde hair, and shapely body. She looks like the South Asian actress Rekha, the famous actress who made a better Umrao Jaan rendition than Aishwarya Rai.
My mother does not veil.
I don't wear "Islamic dress" but prefer my casual Southern California style when I attend the mosque or masjid.
I love Indian popular culture, I like Shahruh Khan and Karina Kapoor. John Abraham and Shilpa Shetti.
However, Indian society is far from being ideal.
I read in horror when high caste Christian converts prevented "Dhalit" (Untouchable) Christian converts from joining in a Christmas mass and service in South India.
There are certainly a significant portion of Muslim extremists, but lets look at the numbers and not be so paranoid.
There are only an estimated 70,000 Al Qaeda affiliates in 60 countries, among a sea of 1-1.5 billion estimated Muslims.
That is a small drop in the bucket.
Furthermore, India has close trading ties to Iran and Saudi Arabia, both theocracies, one Sunni Salafi and the other Twelver Shia.
Indian business interests are quite extensive in Malaysia, a nation that is only 65% Muslim and allows non-Muslims to thrive.
SimpleMuslim,
The United Arab Emirates is not "Islamic" but Muslim majority. However, they do treat Asian and African menial laborers like crap in my humble opinion.
no comment
MumbaiDesi,
HIndutva considers Pakistan their lost territory, they are interested in the Sindh, Punjab, and Kashmir since they see these lands as Indian soil, and well considering the role Pakistan in antiquity played in an emerging pan-Indian cultural sphere on the subcontinent, their form of nationalism would dictate such a worldview.
Pakistan is ruled by a civilian government, however, the military does have a heavy hand still in internal and external affairs regarding its neighbors.
Pakistan makes for a bad neighbor, even for Muslim majority Iran and Afghanistan, both who have suffered from Muslim instigated terrorist attacks in Kabul, Qandahar, and along the border with Pakistan and Iran.
to all my friends who have criticized hindutva,
I agree with most of you. There have been cases where hindu leaders have gone overboard. But you only tell me..... how else would a person react to the attacks by the ISI-backed Pakistani militants in Mumbai? Right now, every Indian wants to go and kick the ass out of the terrorists. But if bulk of the terrorists are Muslims from Pakistan, and they all are supposedly on "jihad", then there is every chance that a bunch of insensible Hindus who get too harsh on islam.........
But let me remind you, no Hindu has ever questioned the integrity of pakistan and carried out a suicide attack, killing a suicide attack there.... Contrary to Pakistanis who sneak in all the time and kill innocents. Whatever attacks in India that have taken place on Muslims, have occurred only as a backlash on Pakistanis. they are not meant for innocent muslims......u shud come and see the unity that many of us have with muslims.... u will realize how wrong u r!!
The problem is that ayodhya, godhra etc have taken place only after a significant event. all countries have their problems, so does india, but it comes over them very fast.... so i warn pakistanis to mind their own life.... all Muslims in india are more safe and secure than they wud be in pak itself....
As a Muslim, I feel safer in India than in Pakistan, especially being of a minority sect in Islam.
India has economic opportunities and foreign investments, which Pakistan is sorely lacking.
As a Muslim, I like living amongst non-Muslims, since I'm a religious minority in the United States anyways.
My "beef" with Pakistan is in their continued interference in Afghan internal affairs.
Leave our people alone, let us determine our own political course, even if that means furthering our relations with Mother India (Bharat).
iFaqeer always writes about Pakistan all the time, I would say half the postings here always deal with Pakistan on regular basis.
Hello, there are 190 million Muslims in Indonesia and 150 million in India. There are 140 million in the Arab world. Pakistan has the same number of Muslims as the Arab world.
SimpleMuslim,
How dare you accuse me of not being a Muslim.
I welcome Hindu participants to this Muslim discussion board.
I have grown up with Hindus, even dating them or having romantic interests with them. Yes, I will admit to not being a virgin, having engaged in premarital sexual intercourse.
This site is not promoting hate, it is dealing with some serious questions.
I work for the Department of Homeland Security, and yes, this estimate is based on US terrorism intelligence.
Extremism in Islam is a problem period.
Pre-9/11, when suicide missions were confined to Israeli civilian targets, I think far too many Muslims found this to be acceptable.
Post-9/11, the most spectacular attacks occur in Muslim majority countries from Islamabad, Peshawar, Kabul, Qandahar, Mumbai, New Delhi, Bali, Quetta, Karachi, Amman, Beirut, Karbala, Najaf, Baghdad, Samara, etc.
This Muslim happens to be gay. Sexually, I can address the physical characteristics of my mother, she is beautiful in accordance to South Asian standards. My mother does not veil, she is modest in her actions, but she does not have to be in a polyester jilbab and hijab to exhibit modesty.
She left her job as an administrative assistant because her boss, an Asian Indian Hindu made sexual overtures in the workplace that she found unacceptable. This was the catalyst which led her to pursue electronic engineering.
But I am no member of Hindutva, I have issues with Pakistani interference and influence in Afghanistan, but even though I consider India the most successful of all South Asia since partition, they have issues with their treatment of Muslims.
Read the opinion piece by Asra Nomani, I think you will find it enlightening.
Mai salaamah, I will try to remember my adab (manners) with you.
This is my last visit and last comment on this blog....With respect to all thoughtful and secular Hindus and Muslim, Jews and Christians, I beg pardon of u if i ever hurt any body's feelings ....I never meant to hurt anybody...but presenting both sides' stories is an essential step towards a successful negotiation...I've been raised with Hindus and still majority of my friends are Hindus, and thank God i know several of them enough to see a light at the end of the tunnel.....I appreciate stand taken by Hindus like Teesta Setalvad, Yoginder Sikand etc. who speak for everybody and secularism....hatred begets only hatred...education means understanding each other and not being partial to ur own kind. I wish it all turns out well in the end as in Mahesh Bhatt's movie "Dhoka". I pray that Hindus and muslims live in peace once gain...and terrorism goes to hell, muslim and Hindu terrorism both. I already said Muslim terrorism is more detrimental and dangerous to Muslims than Hindu terrorism as it gives then an alibi to justify butchering muslims...As I already said i know 100,000 muslims and go to every muslim locality in every city in india, but i'm yet to see a terrorist plotting an attack.....muslims like others have families and they r more interested in bread and butter than religion and politics...please all extremists, Hindus and Muslims, leave them in peace...u kill them from both sides...as when a muslim suicide bomber explodes, muslims get killed too and when Hindu extremists lead a mob for burning and raping muslims, thousands of muslims get killed and raped and burnt....
gustavoMustafa,
u can't be more seular than me..coz u dont know what it's like to be a muslim in india..i have to face on daily basis criticism, insult and religious discrimination, abuses against islam, i still bear it all and carry so..and still maintain my relationships with them...coz islam teaches patience and tolerance...it's the most tolerant religion though u wud scoff at me for saying this in ur next comment....Though your terrorist figures of 70,000 are nonetheless faked as its too obvious ...i think it should be 7000 million or 1.2 billion, the total population of muslims in world.....u want to paint a darker picture than it is to fulfill your own purposes by defaming muslims..Though I still dont believe u r a muslim...and i dont know who u r working for...meanwhile why don't u read "THE ISRAEL LOBBY AND U.S. FOREIGN POLICY: by John J. Mearsheimer, Department of Political Science,University of Chicago and Stephen M. Walt, John F. Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University. It will show you in detail the atrocities and state crimes of your master country and its allies against Muslims. If you're a man, you'll start a blog about US Govt.'s and Israel's crimes too I hope...and a blog about Gujarat riots and other such numerous carnages of muslim like Bombay carnage of 1992, Babro mosque demolition and carnages after post demolition.......Do you have the courage and manliness to do so????These muslim extremists are no doubt murderers and will rot in hell...but when will u have the courage my friend to fight against the butchery of other communities...or purpose of ur blog is just to show muslim extremism and u fear ur master country's wrath to stand up for justice...be like Micheal Moore or Teesta Setalvad...a just man....
Still one more and most important point, though u and all others keep trying to defame islam, still islam has been the fastest-growing religion in the world for many decades, including fastest growing in USA...
According to a study conducted in 2001 by International Studies at Shaw University in North Carolina, nearly 20,000 Americans convert to Islam each year, and about 7,000 of them are women. Some reported conversion rates quadrupled after Sept. 11. Why do thousands of Black Americans convert to islam when faced with racism, why dalits in india flock to islam to seek equality and respect when hindu casteism treats them worse than animals and even dont allow them to touch them or their things?
U may start thousand such propaganda blogs against islam, but people are not fools they know islam is the most peaceful religion though u wud be loath to admit this...our people don't believe in violence and these few freaks and lunatics calling themselves muslims count nothing
Regarding Dubai, what makes that country "Islamic" when the indigenous Arab peoples there contract out all the labor to foreigners, many of whom are not Muslim, like Christian Western professionals or Hindu and Sikh mahouts?
Akhi, you seem to exhibit some paranoia and an "inferiority" complex.
The internet is not the best place to get information about Islam or other religions for that matter.
It can be a guide, but all information should be taken with a bit of skepticism.
The figures cited indicate that only a minority are involved in terrorism.
However, where is your adab (manners) when you would make an accusation questioning someone's faith?
Do you know me?
Do you know my intentions?
Or is your assumptions based on your narrow-mindedness.
As a Muslim, I feel there are too many Muslim men who relegate women, in fact, statistics show that female literacy lags behind most Muslim men in most societies that are Muslim majority, with Qatar being a rare exception.
In Iran, women make up 3 out of 5 college students, in fact, with such high female enrollment, the government has considered limiting the number of women allowed to pursue a higher education.
I am a US government employee, I'm a secular Muslim, and yes, my paychecks are from the US Department of Agriculture.
You consider me a pawn, one who defames Islam.
However, how have I defamed Islam, perhaps my harsh anti-Pakistani rhetoric has defamed Urdu speaking Punjabis, but I have not defamed Islam or Muslims.
Your accusations and pleas to have this site shut down, indicate, you are insecure in your own belief system and like many intolerant Muslims, would rather have discussion shut down than engage in it.
Again, the Hindus on this site are welcomed, let us continue this conversation, with or without you.
But since you make such bold statements, prove to me how I have discredited Muslims?
Prove to me how Islam is more peaceful and therefore the best religion in the world?
Don't just repeat what some charismatic imam in a tiny mosque in Dubai says, one who may not even be a government employee of the Department of Islamic Education and Instruction.
Apparently, your observance of Islam has put you at odds with your own family, who are arguably less "observant" than yourself. This bothers you, and you perhaps hate your own culture, feeling it is somehow corrupt to the "pure Islamic Arab" culture.
You are most likely a Desi, but one who has abandoned the shalwar kamiz for a thobe and ghaffiyah. I feel sorry for you, hey, you're South Asian, not someone who grew up in a Gaza slum.
Pakistan - No. 1 rogue country of the world
I'd like to make a small mention of the big menace we have on this planet. Pakistan. This is a rogue country, with total chaos, no leadership, military still rules the whip on the civilian govt. In fact there is no govt. in Pakistan. There are many problems with this country, and I am not pointing them out. It's the media, experts, analysts. This country does not have good education system, no progressive thinking, no strengths, no tourism places, no peace. Pakistan is still upset on the Bangladesh creation and is hell-bent on stealing Kashmir. Their militants managed to kill Benazir Bhutto successfully. And they have full right to kill Zardari, Gilani, Kiyani, Miyani, Piyani, Tiyani, Suyani, and any such fabulous people they have. It's their bloody internal problem. So the zillion rupee question still remains - what the hell do they have got to do with India's internal problem of Gujrat riots or Babri Masjid demolition. None. But still their sentiments are hurt. Oh so what about Indians sentiments on sending Pak trained terrorists to Mumbai and start spraying bullets like Baygon Spray? Never mind. They are a rogue country and have full constitutional right to do so. I see many of their TV video recordings on YouTube whereby their so-called self-styled security experts are denying Pak's hand in any terrorism.
Like Somalia, Libya, Afghanistan, and any other rogue country on this planet - Pakistan is just one more addition. The unfortunate part is, this rogue country is the neighbour of India. We have to live with this stinking poisoned amputated limb next to us for past 61 years. It's an unwanted part of India body that was cut off on 14th August 1947. And it's still lying next to us in a filthy bad foul stinky way.
Another mention I'd like to make is Pakistan govt. is having a lot of sentiments towards Jinnah's residence in Mumbai. The Jinnah House. Is there any more good reason to give them occupancy of this house anymore? I don't think so. In my honest opinion, Indian govt. should demolish this house and set up a school in that place. Nobody will have any hurt sentiments or offense to have this gift.
It's a never-ending discussion and debate and war of words, on the future of Pakistan. Certainly it does not look promising or attractive or positive. Who cares?
Jai Hind!
"Hind" is a Persian word meaning "river," a reference to the people of the Indus River valley, which lays in present-day Pakistan.
Pakistanis and Indians are one in the same, modern Hindu culture and modern Muslim culture on the subcontinent cannot be separated, both are branches from the same tree.
Not sure what the relevance of your comment about me is to the rest of this discussion, Gustavo, but you find my discussion about Pakistan an over-emphasis?
Firstly, I write what I most familiar with. Otherwise, you get half-baked
Have you seen the headlines and covers of news media lately? Pakistan is the 2nd largest Muslim nation--and the one most in the news lately. Shouldn't we be trying to understand and present the ins and outs of that community here?
On the other hand, I don't see too many people discussing the largest Muslim--or any type of--community in Africa except for me. Search on "Nigeria'.
And do check out the other half--by your own reckoning--of what I write. You'll find that I do try to engage with issues and communities around the world.
And speaking of points of view, I like to think that even when I am talking about Pakistan, I don't tend to buy into any official or unofficial biases or national myths and try to have an open discussion. Take your (to give you credit, admitted) focus on Pakistan's "continued interference in Afghan internal affairs". When other countries do it, it's called a foreign policy. And I am the first to say that in Afghanistan, the foreign policies of Pakistan, yes, first Pakistan, the US, Russian, India, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Britain and lots of others have been imperialistic and evil. Not to mention the evil actions of a lot of Afghan leaders aka war lords aka thugs. If you're able to have that kind of open discussion rather than take out your frustrations with Pakistani policy in Afghanistan on those of us that do try to engage with the issue, then we can talk.