These two guys used to table in the East Village. One was an American (ex?)-hippy convert and the other a born-Muslim. The convert made a poster that said “Not all Muslims are terrorists. Come and ask us anything.” It was funny and people liked it. The born-guy didn’t like the first part so they erased it. The born-guy’s approach was to literally ask people if they were Christian, be very sweet to them and then procede to debate them about how the trinity is impossible. Now if you’ve known me at all, you’d know that my feeling is, if you’re talking God, it’s just silly to get into particulars and one vs trinity. It’s like arguing over whether or not you should believe in a green elephant or a polk-dot banana. Live and let live when it comes to the unseen.

Anyway… I ended up hanging with the born-guy now and again if I saw him at the mosque. But then I saw that the mosque he hangs around has a lot of pamphlet-people and programs that are supposed to be “outreach” come and meet a muslim day type stuff. It has always felt weird and “debate me and if I win you’ll join Islam” type stuff.

Needless to say during one of these events I asked some imam during public Q&A where he was laying into everyone he thought was NOT a Muslim about where in the Qur’an it gave him the right to denounce Shiites etc, as not Muslims, and were humans given the power to read peoples’ hearts, to which (and honestly to my surprise) everyone on the stage started talking loud and telling me how I was disrespectful etc etc etc… which of course lead out into the street between me and a bunch of Muslims telling me some questions are better discusse din private, etc etc etc. What a crock.

This is how they tried to inform people about Islam. At a public presentation of Islam etc, they denounce everyone who’s not like them. And then freak on you if you call them on it.

F- that place.

I’ll take the little masjid in Clinton Hill BK, NY any day. The imam smiles and there’s no dawa, just prayer, and a little roaming cat.

sometimes I think the urge to convert is so strong because it
stills doubt. It’s almost a conquest. I got the other person to
adopt my beliefs, that proves I am right. sometimes I think if
people from the west convert it makes Muslims who have had
their cultures denigrated feel doubly vindicated.
kinda of like when scholars say look even researchers in the west
say that Islam is so and so…... it’s a weird inferiority/superiority
complex.

I don’t understand the missionary mentality. At all. How can you prove something that is by definition unprovable? One of my Muslim friends said something great to me when I told him I was considering converting, back in the day: “I’m not even going to encourage you. This will be the hardest thing you have ever done. There is no way you will be able to make anyone else understand. I won’t even say good luck.”

Best thing he could have said, and he was absolutely right on all counts. If only all people of faith had the intestinal fortitude to say “It’s your deal; if this is your faith, nothing I can say or do will change that, and if it isn’t, the same rule applies.”

Jill is an amazingly plucky girl. I knew her vaguely when she worked in Cairo; she is as straighforward and story-oriented a person as you could want for news reporting. I’m sure she’ll be back.

I accept the point about Zakat etc, but there were recorded attempts in India, by the Mughals, to forcibly convert people to Islam.

Many of the Sikh Gurus gave up their life fighting forcible conversion. Especially against Aurungzeb. Though Akbar was pretty good with religion.

You are correct, I was only thinking about the first expansion of the Muslim community during the Prophet's day up to the Umayyads. The first wave of exapansion under the Mughals—I am not a South Asianist, but as far as I know—left a bloody trail. If I remember correctly, the majority of the expansion happened under Akbar, though. Things did get better at that point. In any case, all to say I should have been more specific.

There is a sad (and funny) story about a group of tablighis in New Mexico who learned from the local Jehovah's Witnesses to go door to door and coerce people to convert through sheer irritation. One fellow said the shahadah simply to get these guys out of his house. He then called my friends—who were the only Muslims he knew—and asked them if he had converted and what he should do! They asked him why he made shahada. He said to get the guys out of the house. They said then you said the shahada without the intention to convert, you did not convert. No worries. It is just so pathetic.

Why isn't living a good life and making a good example and leaving people's hearts with Allah enough?

Kidnappers are trying to convert her? I think they actually think she'd be interested. I think their example is a perfect—if exaggerated—illustration of how off-kilter and anti-sunna many efforts to convert non-Muslims can be.