Introductions: New Member Spottedeagleboy

Hakim,

What is the Moorish Orthodox Church?

Is it a cross between Islam and Christianity?

Wikipedia on Moorish Orthodox Church

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moorish_Orthodox_Church_of_America 

I'm sorry, I had clicked on the link that brought up the blogs and mine had 0 responses.
When I posted my c ya, this grouping of posts came up. Sorry.

On another board I post on, Ali, was asked to participate in a dialog to bring two cultures together. It is not going well. In my past I have rejected the blending of cultures to a certain level to prevent cultural pirating of Native American religion. I don't know if there are Muslim 'wanna-be' converts. White liberalism and fedgov entitlement have killed the will of the individual to succeed. Laury mentioned AIM. I was a member of AIM during the Wounded Knee days in the 70's. I left the movement in the mid 70's. The movement is not representative of Native American religions or does anything more than seek converts to pirated white liberalism. AIM members indulge in alcohol and drugs.

My coming here is not to discuss AIM, though I am open to questions about Native Americans, the War on Terror, or religion. Being NA, I have been targeted by non-Indians for the crimes of 'my' history and ridiculed and condemned by Christians. I am not anti-Christian nor to I deny history, on either side. I do not subscribe the the victimhood and blame the white man ideaology so many Indians use as an excuse today. Obviously the identity of Indians today is so fragile and confused, a non-Indian like Ward Churchill can exploit the culture for his own political expediency. I suspect the same has been done to Islam. Americans view Muslims as an embedded threat to national security. My question would be: who is the threat and who are the patriots, so to speak. That being said, I'm sorry I didn't know how to use the board properly. I'm encouraged by your acceptance of my initial post and look forward to discussion.

My name in Lakota reads: Wanble Gleska Hosila.

c ya again: Spotted Eagle Boy

Sitaram has been thinking this through as well, but your posts are shorter so I can read them (joke Sitaram joke)!

Sitaram unleashes his tamil tiger to swallow the hamster in one gulp.

"Kill, Tiger, Kill!"

(joke - throwing a little Sri Lankan intrigue into the mix)

Seriously folks, America considers George Washington a hero, founding father and patriot, but at the time, King George of England declared Washington a traitor (which, in point of fact, he was, being a British subject).

In more recent times (the 1960s) we may consider how the Rev. William Sloan Coffin was considered a traitor, along with Jane Fonda (I aint fonda Hannoi Jane) and Dr. Spock (of infant care fame) for their meeting with the Viet Cong to discuss peace. Yet this year Rev. Coffin died, and is considered a hero for the positions he defended during his career.

Here is a nice, very long article I wrote entitled "Patriots& Loyalists: Heros & Traitors"

http://literarydiscussions.myfreeforum.org/ftopic84.php

Sitaram wrote there:

"How does one judge any person's life and actions in totality? How does one sift out the patriots from the traitors in the winnowing fan of historical hindsight?

The United States of America stands for many things which are good, but the history of that nation harbors many acts which are shameful, slavery being only one, but a most obvious, palpable example.

It is sometimes difficult to judge between patriot and loyalist, between liberal and conservative, between hero and traitor. "

Thank you for your replys. I read the blog entries provided for me. Thanks. At one time I was considered the 'threat' other Indians. I closed my sweatlodge and dennounced the blending of cultures and races for profit.
Does this same confusion of religion and culture occurr in the American Muslim community?
I had discussed the place for religion and politics with members from the Nation of Islam. I came away with that glazed deer in the headlights look. Apparently Mohammad didn't explain thoroughly about how to blame everything on the whiteman.

My people's past is violent, no doubt. Violence was the process by which we obtained meat and defended our lives.

Many Americans focus on the violence in the Koran. I have read the news accounts of American Muslims resorting to violence in this country. I've read Ali's codemnation of violence.

My own son was nearly killed by a Muslim in Baquaba.

I can't paint the entire world of Islam as seeking to create a world of violence with the goal of conquest. Yet I harbor anger in my heart for the attack against my son. That being said, it was his choice to enlist and serve in Iraq.

What is the Islamic verse from the Koran that teaches Muslims to accept and be tolerant of non-Muslims?

I think I'm loosing continuity in this train of thought. I'm going to take a nap and maybe revisit the board later today or tomorrow.

Spotted Eagle Boy

I have in my library a book on Islam. Let me go get it. Back. I have a copy of:

ISLAM by Caesar I. Farah. 6th Edition. I keep in my comparative religions section. Out of anger I purged all the books on Christianity after a relentless barrage from a Christian hate group. I admit...I get 'emotional'. However, I have not purged the book on Islam.
I your opinion, Laury and others, is this a credible source for a guy like me?

I hate throwing out books, but the JC codemns you to hell and hurry up and die crowd pissed me off. So....King James and the boys are lying out in the desert somewhere.

The best introduction to Islam is called _The Vision of Islam_ by Sachiko Murata and William Chittick. They don't worry too much about history and give you basic ideas that nearly every Muslim in the world would identify with.

Peace, Laury

spottedeagleboy, I hear you about your son; I served in Afghanistan as a Marine for which I took some heat for from other Muslims. My attitude may be somewhat like yours: I don't buy into the "meainstream" view of my community and think we need to look at ourselves first before we blame the West for every rainstorm that passes our way. Obviously, its not a popular position to take.

As for the melding of cultures, I've often viewed Islam as a spiritual beleif which can accomodate any mixing of cultures and still keep its essential aspects such as helping people understand God and how, in general and sometimes very specifically, how to be good people while on this earth. But, I do understand your position about melding your culture; I often see Muslim immigrants trying to change my culture (I'm Italian) and I really don't like it although we share the same religion. But, there's not a whole lot I can do if the other Muslims don't agree with my ideas or are too paralyzed to act to preserve thier own cultures against Arabic culture.

- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.

I suppose the word "Arabic" denotes the spoken language, and is a noun, whereas the word "Arab" could be a noun, denoting an individual from Arabia, or an adjective, properly denoting "Arab culture" or perhaps we should say "the culture of Arabs". Of course, we are assuming here that the phrase "Arab culture" is not in itself an oxymoron. (Just kidding Laury!) I must shirk my duties and pray to Lord Google for some enlightenment.

A google search on "Arabic culture" yields only half the number of results returned when one searches on "Arab culture", which tends to support my conjecture that "arab culture" is more grammatically correct.

Or, perhaps one should say "Arabian culture."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab

As usual, Wikipedia wins hands down with the quality of its information.

The Arabs are mainly Muslim with sizeable Christian followers, and some Arab Jews. Arab Muslim are Sunni, Shia, Ibadhite, Alawite, Ismaili or Druze. The Druze faith is sometimes considered as a religion apart. The Arab Christians follow generally one of the following Eastern Churches: Coptic, Maronite, Greek Orthodox, Greek Catholic, or Chaldean.

It is surprising to realize that the greatest rabbinical commentator of all times, Moses Maimonides (12th century Spain) wrote one of his most important works, "The Guide for the Perplexed" in Arabic, not in Hebrew.

In my searching, just now, I stumbled across this most interesting, and perhaps controversial, link:

http://www.free-minds.org/Arab_Conspiracy.html 

Welcome!

What I know of Native Americans is almost entirely from reading Dee Brown, Black Elk and Sherman Alexie (who in my opinion writes better than just about anyone in the world, with the possible exception of Yann Martel). I am acually in Bangladesh, though, so I am probably not representative of the American Muslim population to which you seem to address your questions.

With regard to creating a modern Muslim world view; Laury was right about this one. There won't be one modern Muslim world view, but many of them. That's the reason I joined this site; because of its diverse and experimental nature.

I've often thought about how Native Americans and Muslims seem to have become the ethnic scapegoats of American and European culture. Muslims were at least lucky enough to eventually gain indepedence from colonial rule, though of course things have been far from easy since then.

I'm finding that your introduction of yourself is challenging quite a few of my own stereotypes of what is means to be a self-described "American conservative". In my mind, that phrase usually equates to the Christian religious right that we hear so much about. But obviously that's my own preconception at work. Apparently "conservative" has different implications in the context of federal welfare dependency and rates of alcoholism visible in the Native American community.

P.S. The number of comments is becoming very long, and seems to be on the verge of being hijacked by one of those interminable Arabic-vs.-Islamic culture debates. Perhaps if you created a new post it would be easier to continue the discussion?

OmarG:

i thought you are (?) from Sicily....not Italy? Sicily has had african influence..thought that was the reason you are tolerant. true?

Yeah, I was looking forward to hearing more from you! And seeing how the progressive muslims respond.

hakim