‘Surah Rahman (suurat ar-raHmaan, for you hyper-correct individuals out there).’ omarg

why call someone “hyper-correct” if one knows and says ‘surat ar-rahman’ instead of Surah Rahman! if (correct) knowledge is not imparted, it makes knowledge and the individual who knows it complicit in propagating ignorance, more like a shytan.

if i were to choose between two imamas: one says ‘surat ar-rahman’ and the other says ‘Surah Rahman’, i would go with the one who is a better communicator, the one who says things right.

Get over it Center.

The hypercorrectness does exist in Muslim communities and it is a real distraction for others and a sign of ego for the practitioner.

The Qur’an is not spelled out phonetically, and since this is a written medium, writing Sura Al Rahman is perfectly correct. That is the Arabic translation.

Pronunciation is a different matter, had Omar made an audio recording of his thoughts, we could listen and perhaps privately inform him of an Arabic pronunciation misstep had he mispronounced.

Obviously, this is not the case.

What I notice is a very annoying Islamochauvinism that is over concerned with form and indifferent, almost oblivious to substance.

And so we find a great portion of Islam’s flocks following shepherds who can pronounce Islam very proudly but cannot do anything but regurgitate meanings from other regurgitators.

2nd hand of 2nd hand is 2nd rate.

I intentionally use the common English forms to nativize these terms. Scholars who know Arabic can say it according to the rules of Arabic grammar if they like, but for the vast majority of American Muslims, the common English usage of Surah Rahman is entirely appropriate; there is no “al-” in English and no “taa marbuTah” either, so incorporating them as alien elements in an English phrase is an absurdity and useless, since it in no way changes the meaning to English speaking Muslims.

Hypercorrectness, especially with foreign phrases, is seen in American culture as condencending and pompous. what better way to alienate people from the Religion than that?

Salams, Salams, Salams

- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.

there is no “al-” in English and no “taa marbuTah” either, so incorporating them as alien elements in an English phrase is an absurdity…omarg

omarg, you have a thinking error; you are resisting change. People can learn ‘al-’ and other things that make their leadership in prayer more welcomed. Notice this: Arabic speakers do not have the letter ‘p’ in the alphabet; they acquired that in order to be better communicators.

English speakers can do the same re learning Arabic in order to read the holy text correctly and be academically more polished.

Reading the Quran is one thing: it demands proper pronounciation because one is speaking Arabic , but when a person is talking in English about the surah, there is no need, Islamically or otherwise, to incorporate Arabic grammar. You mention ‘p’, but seem to disregard that it is used when speaking in a foreign language (unless the speaker speaks in the Iraqi dialect…).

- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.

Center, with your lack of polish when using English, I’d say that you should be the last person to demand such precision in any other language.

Fashion Mujahid(ah),

Ramadhan Kareem

Center and OmarG

Two gay lovers seating in a tree . . .

First comes love, drama, and then domestic partnership . . .

And then a fist fight after Eid prayers . . .

Hahahahahaha, you guys are are so entertaining . . .

‘What I notice is a very annoying Islamochauvinism that is over concerned with form and indifferent, almost oblivious to substance. ‘BK says…... BK also says:

‘...had Omar made an audio recording of his thoughts, we could listen and perhaps privately inform him of …...”

Notice the ultra conservative bent in your thinking when you say ‘’‘‘privately’‘’‘. BK, I thought you are for substance?...covering up wrongs and shrouding them with a fig leave such as (privately)....is form….’‘Privately’... has contributed to the perpetuation of abuse, such as domestic violence. Domestic violence has been presented as a ‘private’ issue, privately talked about; those concerned with ‘form’ talk about addressing it ‘privately’.

It seems that this ‘privately thing’ you seem to be for is the tip of an iceberg of FORM.

BK, why not publicly say it? I know…it would be a ‘shame’.....another type of ‘form’.

Center

Huh?

Correcting a brother or sister publicly over a triffle mispronunciation is another form of ego outlet.

Modesty requires the nasiha, if it is required, should be done discretely. It should be done, but to put it on parade shows a low, weak and possibly hostile character.

Which I assume, in this case, is in retaliation for disagreeing with you.

It has nothing to do with ignoring abuse. That is just plain silly. Try again.

BK,

first ‘privately’, now ‘nasiha’!

I could imagine someone privately giving nasiha to an abuser; it goes as follows:

‘you can correct your wife, it would be more islamic if you not beat her (sorry, meant correct her!) so hard’. the abuser, gives the customary islamic shukr: thank you brother!

the abuser head home to his wife to give her a nasiha; the nasiha goes as follows:
I hear you talk about what goes in ;my house’. I am giving you nasiha now to stop talking to others about what goes on in (my) house. you are bringing shame to ‘my name’. a good muslim woman keeps her family affairs inside the house; a good muslim wife is ‘saboor’. she does not complain to neighbors; she prays and complain to Allah. when I married you I thought you were a good mulimah.

this is a nasiha for you to stop talking about the family; the walls have ears: someone told me you were complaining about me. This is a nasiha for you, you could happen if you do not listen (ie, be compliant with) to my nasiha, the nashiha of the father of your children.

nashiha and privately giving nashiha are nothing but a veiled methods of letting violence and abuse flourish.

BK, no matter how you cut it, the structure of your thinking is not for openness. Pretty much Nixonian.

Center

We were talking about Arabic pronunciation. How we got to wife beating is a mystery to me.

Courtesy has its limits, of course. I would not suggest giving private nasiha to Osama Bin Laden either. I would contact the proper authorities or grab an club and beat him over the head.

But we were not talking about such cases, and if you need more lessons on being civil, I think it is clear I am not the one to help.

It was just a suggestion.

Ramadan mubarak if you are Muslim

BK…’...and if you need more lessons on being civil, I think it is clear I am not the one to help.’

BK, how true! alhamdu lillah, I aint asking for one! What an ego!

What you still do not get is that the ‘structure’ of your thinking is what lead to discussing abuse. you refuse to venture into ‘how’ you think even after providing you with examples.

the US is pursuing Bin Laden…would you pursue an abusive brother with the same vigor as the US in pursuing Laden or would you stick with Nasiha delivered discreetly?.

have a good day.

How I think is a private matter and if you have something to offer, you can write me offline.

Then I will be sure that you advice is not prompted by YOUR ego.

Let me know your email address and I will surely seek your council.

Buenas Dias

How bizzare this posting has turned…

- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.

I know. I don’t want to continue it here, sorry.
Somethings are private

No problem; It wasn’t you who created the Bizarro World…

- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.

BK, Buenos Dias . . . dia is masculine . . .

Gracias por su nasiha espanol

What is “nasiha”?

Council

It is an Arabic not Spanish word

For ibn al-Arabi’s view on the opening chapter of the Qu’ran, go to:

http://darvish.wordpress.com/2006/09/30/every-human-being-is-born-a-muslim/

Ya Haqq!

Nasiha means “council”

That’s a weird phrase . . .

Er, you’ve got your homophones crossed. It means counsel, as in to advise. Not council.

Why the hell are you mixing Arabic with Spanish?

Call me a Latino-Persian cultural chauvinist, but what are you trying to convey?

I know when I use Arabic, Arabs always correct me, don’t like it when a Latino corrects your grammatical incorrect Romance language usage?

“Why the hell are you mixing Arabic with Spanish?”

If you read the thread above carefully, it will be clear to you that I have attempted to show how, during the 7th to 11th Century Andalucia, Spanish and Arabic language where all but merged in a local dialect unique to Cordoba and some parts of Lithuania.

WTF!

In 1492, the Catholic Monarchs put an end to linguistic mixing and purged the peninsula of “Saracen” influence.

Hahahahahaha, take a chill pill man, this is Ramadan.

I found this recitation of Surah Rahman quite beautiful: http://youtube.com/watch?v=SBxQWgk2Ol8

BTW i found this post on Google by searching “surah rahman arabic text”

Why are you all getting carried away?

ISLAM=PEACE

I can’t believe it, reading through the comments.