Here is a serious question for you (I am not being facetious).  If Islam were to grant equality to same sex unions, then would polyandry be permitted to males?  Would two male partners have the right to four partners each?  Or would such a reform movement favor the West’s practice of monogamy?

your question is irrelevant— it does not apply to modern U.S society. Nobody’s interested in polygamy and nobody wants to legalize polygamy. I’m glad that MPV has issued a statement in support of gay marriage— it’s about time. Gay people deserve rights, equality and liberty as much as anybody else do.

Perhaps no one wants to legalize polygyny but the fact is that it is commonly practiced in the United States
by Muslims (especially in African American Muslim communities) and non-Muslim in an unofficial capacity – often to the financial/social detriment of the illegal/unrecognized wives. The discussion of polygyny is relevant to same sex marriage debates, perhaps not in the context that Sitaram brings up, but certainly in terms of various types of conjugal arrangements and the legal status of the relations between the persons involved. Regardless of whether you are for or against same sex marriage and/or polygyny people are involved in these relationships and they do not enjoy "rights, equality, and liberty." For more information on polygynous marriages in the United States especially in African American Muslim communities and its relation to same sex marriage see Debra Mubashir Majeed’s article in Cross Currents: http://www.crosscurrents.org/Majeed0204.htm

Why do African American converts assume cultural practices that are not widely practiced among even the Muslim "immigrant elite" in this country.  My family in Afghanistan and Iran does not practice polygamy since the practice though permitted in the Qur’an is not economically viable anymore.  Women in those country in my family are postponing marriage, practicing family planning and contraceptive devices, and limiting the number of children they have.

Furthermore, seeing women in this country wear the niqab or burqa who are not from the Third World but born in Philadelphia’s Black enclaves is distressing to women in my family.

What are they thinking?

Why is growing a unkept beard, wearing high water pants, squatting while urinating, and eating with your right hand some how a "fard" requirement in Islam to some African American Muslims?

Why do converts feel the need to adopt an "exotic religion" for the sake of having an oppositional identity to the white mainstream?

you said it so yourself Gustavo— many black Muslim converts do that for the sake of opposing White Judeo-Christian American culture.

"an oppositional identity"

I agree with postcolonial writers like Zia Sardar and John M. Hobson, who argue that Orientalism is more than a historical facet of European (and US) white identity, but a necessary part of it. This Orientalist mindset assumes that modernity, its values and its ideas are superior to anything that has come before it, and that all of humanity should ape its values, as against the beliefs and practices of the primitive "other".

Having said that, I am NOTof the view – speaking as a white convert – that I somehow have to adopt an identity that is anti-European. Rather, I am keen to develop a set of values that is respectful of the Muslim tradition, not reactionary to colonialism and globalisation; and that recognises there are elements within European and US societies that, in common with the best of Muslim values, opposes racism, neoliberalism and the the continued military imperialist adventures of the USA and its allies.

Hear hear!

Progressive Muslims might have to recognize plural marriages since they are technically "Sunnah" and to prevent the charge of being nothing more than "posers" and "deviants" who "attempt to corrupt and confuse the Ummah."

Islam is right now highly politicized.

Islam is filled with pious fools who feel the need to be the self-appointed guardians of the Deen.

Speaking as a blackAmerican Muslim, I’ve seen black converts flee into psuedo-Arab identities as much due to internalized racism as a desire to get away from the WASP template. Note that blackAmericans have an alternative to the WASP template, one that developed not simply as a reaction to the WASP template, despite its borrowings and influence upon other American cultures. When blackAmericans convert to Islam, they often face racism, which often further entrenches racist programming learned during one’s formative years. In order to be deemed fully "Muslim" (read "human"), they adopt Arab customs and dress, in a fashion not entirely dissimilar to blackAmericans who envelope themselves in what is deemed "mainstream" American culture. Never underestimate the trauma of the legacy of slavery; the pain of racism is a very real one, and blackAmericans suffer from it individually and collectively.
As far as the actual topic of this statement, I’d be reluctant to invite people to a house sorely in need of renovation. To be married to the consenting adult of your choice is definitely the prerogative of the individual and God- but if any of our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters wish to marry, they should know that Muslim marriage is a mess, and they should definitely come with all the ideas they can rustle up.

While I do happen to believe that all actions are political, I also believe that is because Nation-States have force fed you the biggest scam in the world: the Nation State. Not because all-is-politcal is inherent. It’s only inherent in cultures maintained by social legalization/legislation.

FM et al, it’s also really FUN to exoticise and wear a costume (every “civilized” culture has and does do it. From blue-jeans to burqas). What better reason to convert but to get that cool hat?! Everybody wants the cool hat and that cool new haircut. While of course everything you’re saying seems to be present in why people roll up their pants, it’s also really cool to roll up your pants and be able to say that that’s what M woulda done. We mustn’t neglect seeing punk as a model for this. There are all sorts of socio-political reasons, but I bet that before all a that is a hidden shunned repressed desire to fit in and be cool. It’s so unfortunate that people have to make their desire to wear cool long robes be a serious militant thing, when they know it’s not and that they think it’s sexy. But since they repress that desire they get all postured and aggressive. Sunnah sunnah sunnah…

Growing a beard is FUN. I think every guy (and girl) should grow a really long shaggy beard . In fact I am mandating it. Come on! You like laws. You’re all into legislation and having the gov’t do everything for you! Join me in making beard-growing a LAW. Whoooo weee!

Re. polygamy. Ugh… some of you people relate to these issues with such piety. It’s soooo “Muslim” which by the way is sooooo 2001! Having sex with more than one person is FUN. Having sex with one person is also FUN. I love both! People should be allowed to marry however and whoever not because “Hey man free your mind” but because it is not the role of the gov’t (religious or secular [one-and-the-same really for goodness sake!]) to legislate the sexual/marital/spiritual actions of a naturally born people. Do you honestly think you need gov’t to tell you how to marry?!

Get out of the regulation-is-inherent-to-human-existence mind-set. Polgamy, polygany, polyamority, monogamy, polyfidelity, etc shouldn’t be discussed for their legality because the legality of relationships is a scam from the get-go. And yes, you’re talking about repressive polgamy, forced polygamy, but that has nothing to do with multiple partners. That’s oppression. Educate women on how to hold a gun and point it towards any man who forces them into anything. Just be sure to point it about 3 1/2 feet up from the ground and between his legs. Aiming it at their heads makes them think you’re cute, at their balls makes them nervous.

Start with a lawless society and you’ll see that all this “can we all?” “should we all?” is all hogwash cause you’re thinking for everyone.

Burkas are simultaneously REALLY important to one’s spirituality and REALLY stupid and REALLY fun.

Joking?

nicely said

Polygamy should only be entered into if the spouses concerned agree with this alternative lifestyle.

However, such a marriage is not legally permissable in the West and is a form of family structure which has no backing from the state.

The way many Muslims practice Islam is highly political.  Muslims delude themselves with this concept of the caliphate, they think that 1.5 billion will come to consensus to agree on who will lead the Ummah.  They must be kidding, Muslims even after a generation removed from the death of the Prophet engaged in schism early on, and now political disagreement has led to doctrinal differences which on the whole to me seem pretty superficial.

Muslims engage in legalistic squabbling and seriously, we focus on minor details like the fetish of the veil.

I can understand why some Black converts in this country are willing to engage in "man sharing."  The Black family dynamic is scarred to say the least, even in terms of homosexuality, Blacks are not as open about the topic as mainstream white society.  Even if the Bible thumbing crowds do not endorse recent legislation that opens the way for gay marriage, "man sharing" may be an alternative for some women who deem it necessary to marry within "the race" and alleviate the anxiety around finding a Black spouse who is "suitable for marriage."

These are concerns addressed by Black women in social surveys about attitudes concerning marriage, partnership, family formation, etc.

Slavery has existed in Muslim societies for centuries, in fact, the issue of slavery does come up in some Arab households when marriage contracts are negotiated in some Gulf Arab societies.  Slavery and human ownership is permitted in Islam, but emancipation is preferred.  Polygamy is allowed, but monogamy is the default preferred desired conjugal coupling. 

Emulating Arab norms as "Islamic norms" is what I find most amusing.  Since when did Desi dishes liked tikka chicken and masala become "Sunnah" but eating mole poblano and ceviche for iftar is somehow "alien and strange"?

I’m Mexican and Persian, I don’t really care for North Indian cuisine, I prefer South Indian cuisine with their usage of coconut milk and I prefer Thai-styled curries over their South Asian counterparts.

I wear the shalwar kamiz not as a means of dressing "Sunnah" but because this is an expression of cultural identity, not religious identity.  I hate wearing knit kufis since they make them too small for my big head.  I find the hijab unflattering on some women since it makes their face look bloated and too homely.

I like the old styles of veiling which varied from region to region prior to the advent of mass communication.  The Sunnah globalization of wearing bland, monochromatic rectangular hijabs as being the "flag of Islam" is really annoying to me.

I don’t denigrate plural marriages, but their has to be compelling reasons for such unions to take place in the first place.  The Qur’an gives men a stern warning about entering into such relations, that are not to be taken lightly.

If Islam a way of life then how can you stand for something black and white. I am ok with same sex marriage only because I believe in the 14^th amendment. hope that want send me to hell! 

I have nothing against gay people, what they do is their own business. I believe hey are born that way. I guess it boils down to people who fear God and live according to the Qur’ran who doesn’t.  I am of the opinion that progressives forget the Qur’ran to easily.  

the Quran, 7:80-1

"And Lot! (Remember) when he said unto his folk: Will ye commit abomination such as no creature ever did before you? Lo! ye come with lust unto men instead of women. Nay, but ye are wanton folk.

There is much debate at the present time on same sex marriage. This extends to laws being passed, court cases and initiatives and referendums

4:15 As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation).
Lewd women are to be confined to their houses until death. 4:16 And as for the two of you who are guilty thereof, punish them both. And if they repent and improve, then let them be. Lo! Allah is ever relenting, Merciful.

Lewd

adj. lewd·er, lewd·est

1.

a. Preoccupied with sex and sexual desire; lustful.

b. Obscene; indecent.

2. Obsolete Wicked

I believe that I can speak for many Muslims who hold humanitarian views and value toleration. We believe that the Qur’an (Koran) is the Word of God, is true, literally and completely. We believe that the Sunna (collected sayings of the Prophet Muhammed, PBUH) and the Hadith (teachings of the great thinkers of Islam) are guides which must be respected and followed. I found This great essay on the subject  and included a portion of it.

http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_151_200/same_sex_marriage_and_marriage_i.htm

ISLAMIC PERSPECTIVE ²

Nikah is an Arabic term used for marriage. It means "contract". ("Aqd in Arabic). The Quran specifically refers to marriage as "mithaqun Ghalithun,". Which means "a strong agreement".

"and they have taken a strong pledge (Mithaqun Ghalithun) from you?" (Quran 4:21)

The seriousness of this covenant becomes very obvious when one finds the same term i.e., Mithaqun Ghalithun, being used for the agreement made between Allah and the Prophet before granting them the responsibility of the Prophethood. (Quran 33:7)

The Quran also uses the Arabic word "Hisn", suggesting "fortress" for marriage. Marriage is considered the fortress of chastity.

The Definition of Marriage (Nikah)

The original meaning of the work nikah is the physical relationship between man and woman.  It is also used secondarily to refer to the contract of marriage, which makes that relationship lawful.  Which of the two meanings is intended can be determined by the context in which it is used.

As for the definition of marriage in fiqh, the simple definition would go something like this:

"A contract that results in the two parties physically enjoying each other in the manner allowed by the Shari’a."

Since this only focuses on one aspect of the marriage contract, Muhammad Abu Zahrah (a modern scholar) defines it like this:

"A contract that results in the man and woman living with each other and supporting each other within the limits of what has been laid down for them in terms of rights and obligations."

Ibn Uthaimeen takes an even more comprehensive view of the institution of marriage in his definition of it as:

"It is a mutual contract between a man and a woman whose goal is for each to enjoy the other, become a pious family and a sound society."

The Purpose and Goals of Marriage

Like anything a Muslim does, marriage should only be undertaken after gaining an understanding of all that Allah has prescribed in terms of rights and obligations as well as gaining an understanding of the wisdom behind this institution.   Nearly all peoples and all societies practice marriage in some form, just as they practice business (buying and selling).  Umar ibn Al-Khattab used to expel people from the marketplace in Madina who were not knowledgeable of the fiqh of buying and selling.  Likewise, a Muslim should not engage in something as important as marriage without having understanding of the purpose of marriage in Islam as well as a comprehensive understanding of the rights and obligations, which it brings about.

One of the principles of Islamic Jurisprudence says that:  "The default state of all things is lawfulness until some evidence shows otherwise."   Based on this, if new foods are discovered, they are considered lawful, unless there is some specific reason or attribute which would make it forbidden for example if it is causes intoxication.  Relations between men and women do not follow this general principle and in fact are opposite to it.  The principle is that:   "Relations between men and women are forbidden until some evidence shows otherwise."

Procreation (Children)

On of the most important purposes of marriage is to continue and increase the population of the Muslims.  Clearly, this goal could be achieved without marriage, but when actions are undertaken in disobedience to Allah, they do not receive the blessing of Allah and the whole society is corrupted.  The Prophet (sas) said:

"Ankihoo fa inniy mukaathirun bikum al umam yaum al-Qiyama"
"Marry, for I will outnumber the other nations by you on Qiyama." (Ibn Majah – Sahih)

It should be stressed that the goal is not simply to produce any child that will live in the next generation. It is to produce righteous children who will be obedient to Allah and who will be a source of reward for their parents after they die.  The Prophet (sas) will NOT be boasting before the other nations on the day of Qiyama with children of Muslim parents who left the path of Islam.  Thus it is the responsibility of Muslim parents to seek the means of giving their children the training and education they need not just to grow, but to succeed as Muslims worshipping and obeying Allah.  This obligation may include migration (hijrah), establishing of Muslim communities and schools and other obligations.   As the scholars have said in another principle of fiqh:

"Maa laa yutimmu al-wajibu illa bihi fa huwa wajib."
"That without which an obligation cannot be fulfilled is itself obligatory."

Pleasure

Islam is the religion of the fitrah – the religion which is consistent with the natural instincts and needs of mankind.  It is not like the man-made (of modified) religions which set unnatural constraints on people whether self-inflicted prohibition of marriage (nuns and monks, etc.), prohibition of divorce or monogamy.  Men are inclined toward women and women are inclined toward men.   Marriage is the institution, which fulfills this desire and channels it in ways pleasing to Allah Most High.  Allah mentions this attraction:

{Zuyyina li an-naasi hubbu ash-shahawaati min an-nisaa’i wa al-baneen…}

{The love of the desires for women, sons, ... has been made attractive to people.}  The Qur’an, Aal-‘Imraan  3:14

The Messenger of Allah himself made clear that the attraction between the sexes is something natural and not something to be denied or suppressed – only channeled in the ways pleasing to Allah Most High, saying:

"Hubbiba ilayya min dunyaakum an-nisaa’u wa at-teebu wa ju’ilat qurratu ‘ainiy fiy as-salat."
"Women and perfume have been made beloved to me of this world of yours and my peace of mind is in the prayer."  (Ahmad & others – Sahih)

The desire of men and women for each other is an urge, which needs to be fulfilled.   If it is left unfulfilled, it will be a source of discord and disruption in society.  For this reason, the Prophet (sas) ordered all men who are capable of meeting the responsibilities of marriage to do it:

"Man kana minkum dhaa tawlin, falyatazawwaj fa innahu aghadhdh lilbasari wa ahsanu lilfarji wa man laa fa as-saumu lahu wijaa."
"Whichever of you is capable should marry for it will aid him in lowering his gaze and guarding his body (from sin).  As for the one who is not capable, fasting is his protection."  (An-Nasaa’i – Sahih)

I apologize for what my husband just posted; he’s not been himself lately.

hah.

Naahhh…. Can’t be Done! NO sodomite Marriage!

Gay is Haram…. besides we will not be progressive if we become a sodomite!
Muslim will return to stone age, if thy become sodomite!
Nahh…  being a fag, one is likely to die early with no heritence…

Beside it is not Natural…. after all everyone is born as a hetrosexual.
Having a gay lifestyle is a person chosen lifestyle (his choice no one force him)....
but it is never an islamic lifestyle…. so No… Islam never accept sodomite Lifestyle…
but if we repent God is most forgiving!

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