It always bugged me that Cat Stevens thought he had to give up his songwriting to become a Muslim. What a bunch of joyless sad bastard Muslims he must have fallen in with.

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I don’t understand this constant problem with confusing traditionalism with prevailing Wahabiism. I often post various very traditional Turkish melodies with instruments on my blog. I am quite sure each of the many Islamically influenced cultures have all retained instruments in their traditional music.

Is the problem that some fellow Muslims think that music is haram? I do not think so.

I will have to say this many times. Due to interaction with the Quran and the Sunnah, and because of internal evidence, jurists devised what is called the qat`i/zanni classification, definitive/speculative. This classification applies to meaning and authenticity. When it comes to meaning, the definitive is the layer of meaning that is so clear in the sources that no two persons with sound intellect and proper understanding of the Arabic language would disagree upon. This is a tiny layer and constitutes the core belief and practice Islamic system. For example, definitives include the absolute oneness of God, the Prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), that life is a test, that there is a Hereafter, that there are five daily obligatory prayers, that we should fast during the month of Ramadan, that we should always be just even with our enemies, etc.

But revelation is language and language is inherently ambiguous. Because of this and several other reasons, the overwhelming majority of issues are speculative in the sense that they require ijtihad, excercise of disciplined personal reasoning, to reach formulate an opinion concerning them. Since the Prophet (pbuh) is not here anymore, no one can pinpoint the exact true answer. That is, when it comes to the speculative, the truth is simply unknown and unknowable. This does not mean (1) that there is an infinitude of interpretations, or (2) that all interpretations are equally valid. The process of intperpretation of course is constrained by logic, by language, and by the definitives. And interpretations vary in their rigor.

Implications…Very important…

One is that Islam is an inherently diverse religion. This definitive/speculative division actually makes Shari`ah stable without rigidity, and plastic without chaos (of course if Muslims handle issues in smart ways, human agency cannot be ignored here).

Another is the necessity of intra-Muslim tolerance. Muslims  naturally gravitate toward different plausible interpretations. Ideally each one should do his/her best in formulating his/her opinion and choosing his/her position. But then, since the matter is speculative, one should also respect the other plausible interpretations.

Based on the above, if some Muslims feel they are closer to Allah (swt) by avioding music, let it be. Hopefully, they are deferring to their religious conscience as the Prophet (pbuh) instructed in the Hadith. Hopefully they also made an informed decision rather than completely uncritical acceptence of some view or another.

True progressiveness stems from respecting the determinations of other Muslims so long as these are plausible and are not harmful to other Muslims. (Talking here about real harm and not, for example, the specious harm of being offended because other do not share one's views.)

So where is the problem? It is not, as in our case, to take some position, but to think that this position is the absolute truth, to try to impose it on others, and to think that apart from the definitives one can pinpoint the Divine will concerning each single detail of life. In other words, the problem is raising what is obviously speculative and open to a number of understandings to the level of definitiveness, accompanied by oppressing others in the name of the truth.

This issue is now so prevalent that Muslims of almost all stripes, preogressive, conservative, etc., have the bad habit of disparaging other opinions and condemning them as immoral, illogical, and patently false, even if these other opinions are Islamically plausible.

In short, authoritarianism is the problem, and lack of intra-Muslim tolerance.

Yah, Salatino….! I agree.

Willow, I always think about it in terms of common sense. When you listen to music you can feel what it does to you. If you forget God through it, well then it is not good music for you specifically. But if you can see the beauty of God’s signs in a great guitar solo, man, then remember God standing sitting or lying down.

I am a huge fan of Jimmy Page and Robert Fripp. But you keep working on them Willow, they’ll give up eventually. Try Jack White on them.

My lighter is lifted and lit, rock on!

I don’t know why discussions about music and other prohibited things do not begin in the Quran as all discussions about what is prohibited should. I have never read Khaled Abu Fadl before but I’m finding that the legal presumption that all things are PERMISSIBLE unless expressly made prohibited has been a HUGE part of our legal history. As such, when I look at the Quran, I don’t see a prohibition of music, nor do I see a beardless man being named a sinner, nor do I see silk wearing among men being named a sin. These things are permissible unless expressly made prohibited. As far as the hadiths on the matter — most jurists concur that a hadith ‘explains’ something already present in the Quranic present or explain an ambiguity. What hadith do not do is create new legislation out of thin air. While I recognize that there are jurists who do think that, there is a significant split of authority on this matter.

Ali, I’m not necessarily aware of jurists who do not use hadith to create legislation. Malik himself used `amal (the practice of the scholars of Madina) as a source for making laws with uncritical acceptance of thier customs. It was on the theory that these people, the sons (always ‘sons’!) of the Companions “lived” the Quran and thus thier customs were Quranic. There are many hadiths which establish rules, some of which I honestly wish we didn’t have. Can you elaborate?

- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.

There was an internal logic to Malik’s use of ‘amal. Let’s look at it in the most simplistic manner.

Jurist M is faced with an issue that the Quran does not expressly address.

Jurist M looks to the ‘amal of the Medinans as a way to measure what one “solution” could be.

Jurist M reaches his conclusion based upon the ‘amal and then says: this is simply my opinion.

What he did not want was that his opinion become ossified and become the normative opinion any and every time that issue came up.

NOR, did he want, or intend that his method of reasoning become normative.

A jurist did not see himself as a theologian. He saw himself as a person who came up with creative ways to offer solutions to particular matters which often required extensive research and constructing precedents. It is reported that Malik was asked 56 questioned, 38 to which he said “I don’t know” (presumably because he needed to conduct more research).

You also have to take the nature of the question into consideration (this is where Khaled Abu el Fadl has been so helpful).

He points out that asking “should I obey my parents” is NOT a question requiring a legal answer, and therefore, the answer is not a fatwa. However, if the question were “my father won’t let me marry X, can I marry X despite my father’s wish?” Then you DO have a fatwa. Do you see why? Because in the second, you have a precise problem, limited in scope and time to that one individual.

More later.

I use to be a serious musician, and in some ways I still am. But music is no longer my passion. This is partly down to being Salafi/Wahabi-ed when I converted, but also – oddly enough – through reading Idries Shah. Music is, in this view, a sensory-emotional experience. I didn’t know about Qawwali. I don’t listen to much music these days, but it’s no big loss. If people dig music in a big way, it’s fine by me. If they don’t, that’s fine too. Whatever gets you through the night.

Wasalaam

The Muslim Anarchist

No so fast ya Ali :) It is true that scholars disagreed concerning the category of "founding" Sunnah. That is, Prophetic precedents that establish a binding ruling or principle not in the Quran. However, the scholars who did not accept this classification did not do that because of issues of Prophetic authority and the like. They argued instead that there is nothing uttered by the Prophet (pbuh) except that it can be linked to the Quran in some way or another. It is important to note here that the Quran is not just the literal text. The Quran is a complicated book with layers of meanings and implications, as explained in the books of Usul.

Regarding music, some may say that it is included in "laghaw al-hadith" mentioned in the Quran.  You may of course insist on literalism. But you must do so consistently regarding the whole Quran. My point is that the ruling that music is haram or makruh has a basis, and one can say, even in the Quran. To be frank I am not interested now in investigating the evidence related to the permissibility or not of music. But let's say that there is a plausible disagreement and the issue then becomes how to live with such disagreements and handle them.

Salaams Omar. Madinan `amal is related to the Sunnah and not the Quran. (As a digression, of course you do not want Malik to use he/she instead of he or son/daughter instead of son. Let's try to avoid what the British historian Edward Thompson called the "enormous condescension of posterity.") `Amal was thought to be a better representative of the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbub). It was assumed to be mutawatir Sunnah that have come down to us by many from many. There is some truth to imam Malik's assertion. There are some problems also including the issue of whether `amal reflected a Sunnah that was meant to be eternally binding on the Muslim masses. It is here worth nothing that classically the Sunnah was classified into what the Prophet (pbuh) said, did, or tacitly approved in his capacity as (1) a Prophet, (b) the political head of Madinah and commander-in-chief, or© a judge. This was a reflection of scholarly discussions concerning the authoritativeness of various Prophetic traditions and precedents.  

“While I recognize that there are jurists who do think that, there is a significant split of authority on this matter.”

The problem is that all of the noise is being made on one particular side of the split, and that noise is being made into law in some places. Like Unfunny Tehran.

“But if you can see the beauty of God’s signs in a great guitar solo, man, then remember God standing sitting or lying down.”

Oh I do. :) Fear not. You have no idea how many times I’ve been tempted to sneak into the mosque down the street and blast For Those About to Rock from the minaret sound system.

The fact that you mention the Swams is worthy of me commenting. Although if you’re thinking Swans post-87, we may have to exchange words. “Kill the Child” is a wonderful CD with a most no-wavey title. It was basically my sole purpose for picking up a guitar in the first place and then a minute later tuning all the strings to D.

Listening to Devandra Banheart right now…..bisibilillah

As far as my reading of history goes, there were no string
instruments during the Rasools(SAW) time. The first musical
instruments were actually invented by the Muslim Moors
and taken to Andalusia(Spain) from whence it spread throughout
Europe and thus gave the Europeans the troubadours and the
wandering minstrels.
As far as I know the prohibition of wind and string
instruments is primarily based on a hadith of the Prophet(SAW)
concerning the time prior to the arrival of the Dajjal.
That hadith states a number of things will come to pass
before the great “fitnah”. One of them is,
“singing accompanied by wind and string instruments will
become more popular”
Note that it says about the combination of “singing” and
guitars and bagpipes. A lot of scholars thus say that it
is okay to listen to classical music(even if they say rock
and roll is not).
Ofcourse, again the whole thing is arbitrary.
In my limited opinion, one way to interpret this hadith is
not that music is explicitly haram, but that it will become
so popular that people will forget about prayers and actual
contemplation of Allah. And I have seen that. I have
experienced it. Have any of you ever gone to a concert and
missed Maghrib or Eesha? Well there you have it.
And the thing about Wahhabis prohibiting stringed
instruments maybe a bit exxagerated. To begin with Iran is
Shia and they would discard anything which reeks of Sunni,
especially Arab influence. Second, they play stringed
instruments in Saudi Arabia to. I forgot what they call it.
It looks like a bulbous ukelele with like 9 or 12 strings.
And finally I would like to attest to the fact, that
PINK FLOYD is the greatest band that has ever lived.

Yeah, and there were no cars then either, and you can make out in cars and miss your prayers cause you are making out in the car or because you are listening to Zep really loud and flying down a beach road in your surfer quarterback boyfriend's Red Camaro…oh wait, that was when I was a teenager and not yet Muslim. Let me start over….

If people are inclined to miss their prayers, anything will be sufficient to get in their way. I've seen someone miss a prayer over fixing something around the house. He could have come and prayed. He was just preoccupied with the job and wanted to finish it. It is a matter of preoccupation and forgetfulness. We all have to examine ourselves honestly, ruthlessly, and note under what circumstances we tend to forget God. Then sort out the solution. The principle here Hassan is just as you say, it seems to me, concern about forgetting God.

By the way, I saw PF do The Wall in concert while tripping my butt off on acid. Totally awesome! I do not suggest it through, a good memory for me, a bad suggestion for others. I am still surprised we lived through that night, what with driving home on a "road" that seemed to go places we hadn't considered before. This is one of those moments, when I thank God He had not forgotten me.

I was reading an interview of Roger Waters(the main mover
behind Pink Floyd) and he was speaking about what he hated
about the following that Pink Floyd garnered, and how he hated
that it was’nt about the music anymore, but about money,
women and drugs. And he hated playing in stadium concerts
because it was no more about music, but about getting high.
Someday I will start a blog and do a detailed analysis about
Pink Floyd’s music.

The path you tread is narrow
And the drop is sheer and very high
Ravens all are watching
From a vantage point nearby

-Pink Floyd
(Cymbaline)

Yes, it was entirely about getting high. I admit it. I never really liked Pink Floyd. I admit it. See the Punk Rock thing was better cause it was about the music and getting high, no conflict. Again my parental warning that I am lucky (thank you God!) to be alive today still holds.

Dear Friends,
Asalamaualaikum.
We are pretty aware that debate is revolving around the question whether music and songs have legitimate position in Islam. We are interested in knowing what the holy Qu’ran says about music and song. Is there any verse, or even a word, in the holy Qu’ran that support or reject music and song?
We will appreciate your reply.
Sufi Regards
M. Shah Alam
Maizbhandari Academy
(A Forum of Islam and Sufi Studies)
Email: academy@sufimaizbhandar.org
Web site: http://www.sufimaizbhandar.org

Stupid prohibitions is why I’m no longer a Muslim. I can’t love someone who I never knew and consider him the “best of creation.”

Asalamaualaikum,

Dear Brother in Islam,

First of all, I am not a Islamic teologist. Therefore
I can not answer your questions completely. I meant
that I can not give you a reference from the Qur’an.

I can not give you a scholar name on this issue also.

“Here are the my personal thoughts”:

I have read (or heard ) that music is okay as lon as
the music is not harmful(from every perspective you
can think. It should not remind you a bad things or
haram,... )for the listenner.

Recently, there has been growing interest in music in
muslims life. I have a CD which contains lots of songs
with music for the children. It is awesome! It is
totaly for kids(I like also!). The CD is totaly about
Love in Allah, Prophet Mohammad, Islam , parents. I
have learnt some aspects of Prophet Mohammad from that
CD. (It is a Turkish CD)

This is good for our kids. How can we safe them from
the non islamic songs and musics? They would like to
listen music since their friends are listenning music.

If you do not offer an alternative, what kind of
choices do they have? Therefore, we can not ignore the
society and we should offer them what they need
according to Islam.

I have also visted your web site. Masallah very good
website. May Allah help you.

Have you had a chance to read books of Bediuzzaman
Said Nursi?

Sincerely yours,

Ismail.