Willow was right when she said that living in Egypt means that she is not living in a free country or free enough to help fix the mosques. This is exactly the problem with mixing religion and the state: it makes changing attitudes and values through the mosque nearly impossible. Challenging the messes in such countries' mosques also means challenging the state's authority which is a kiss of death is authortarian cultures. Indeed, the Egyptian state's authortarianism is merely a reflection of the rampant authortarianism woven throughout Egyptian culture itself, slithering all the way from the domineering husband and father to the domineering father of the state. Granted, not all Egyptians have authortarian personalities and one can find many fine Egyptians who respect others and nurture humanistic values alongside thier faith or even outside of it. Nevertheless, the culture itself, despite dissenters, is stifled by a pervading sense of authortarianism.
But, here in the US, we have a chance to make it better since the state will not interfere with how we want to run our mosques and what value changes we want to enact. What can't be done in the core of the Muslim world can actually be accomplished on its periphery. In fact, were such an effort to create livable Islamic communities successful in the West, I propose that we would no longer be the periphery, at least in terms of mental geography.ÂÂ
However, there are strong cultural forces which have an interest in not only continuing authortarianism, but in expanding it among the converts and second/third generations as much as possible. This may not always be a purposeful process, which makes it all the more insiduous: the culture of authortarianism spreads along with the goodness of the religion of Islam. Authortarianism may be a force of habit, but there should be no doubt that its practitioners derive significant psychological and financial benefits from such behavior even in the West.
Now, to counter authortarian attitudes and behaviors, we must demand transparency in the mosques' and national organizations' financial transactions and a voice for all segments of the community. While some may deride this idea as affirmative action, its clear that communities must apportion positions of authority to ensure diversity between converts, the second/third generations (who are often more attuned to the converts' culture) and the large variety of immigrant groups. Too often, calls for "Islamic unity" and to being blind to ethnicity end up perversely ensuring that only certain voices are heard and reinforcing the status quo. In an ideally efficient community, the most skilled, dedicated and honestly moral people of any gender or origin would lead by example, which would make affirmative action unnecessary. This will only happen when we have a culturally cohesive community in which,although we may not all share the expressions of values, we would share those basic, essential values.
To illustrate this, there is no cultural agreement in the Muslim community on the value of women in the public sphere. Some American born and immigrant Muslims from different countries think women have a valid place in the community while many others do not. Until having women in the public sphere becomes an <strong>American Muslim</strong> value and not just an American value, or a middle class Pakistani value or an educated Arab-American value, our Muslim community will continue to suffer the tremendous drag of cultural fragmentation. But, don't get me wrong: we do not need to all eat meat and potatoes to achieve a cultural consensus nor do we need to shun shalwar kameez on Eids or other such superficial expressions of values. Do you understand the difference I am trying to show?
Political agitation of the American system and funding from foreign wealthy Muslims can only hide the fractures for so long. What will happen when these attitudes begin to directly conflict with the demographic reality that soon, converts and the second/third generations will outnumber immigrants even if the government does not restrict Muslim immigration? We can work now to prevent that crippling shock and alleviate the current crippling effects of cultural disunity. It must be slow, even halting at times, but consistency of action and firmness, tact and calm in the face of the inevitable resistance will get us far. After all, the Prophet said that the best of actions are those done consistently no matter how small they may be, and look where he got to...
OmarG says,
"Willow was right when she said that living in Egypt means that she is not living in a free country or free enough to help fix the mosques."
I don't know what Willow said. The vast majority of Egyptian mosques are privately built and maintained. This is especially the case in villages and small towns where private mosques easily outnumber publicly built and run mosques by ten to won. Even in big cities, private mosques are exceedingly common. T Ministries of religious affairs or state security sometimes insist on apppointing an imam in a private mosque, but this is not very common.
"This is exactly the problem with mixing religion and the state: it makes changing attitudes and values through the mosque nearly impossible."
That is one of the problems of Sharia. The Sharia state is normally seen as something that is constituted to protect religion, but before it can do that it needs to have some conception of what is and what is not "correct" doctrine and practice. It then becomes a protector of an orthodoxy that it alone defines. As protector of the faith, religion in turn becomes a shield for it.
As for using the mosques to "change attitudes and values", this is the usual MO for Islamist groups. I do not see the mosque as a social or political club and would not like to see them used as political springboards.
One reason is that political organization through mosques polarizes Muslim communities and sets them against one another. The Mosque is meant to bring people together, not drive them apart.
Another reason is that in a multi-confessional society, and most Muslim countries are like this, mosque based political organization immediately excludes all non-Muslims and all non-mosque going Muslims as well.
Salaam,
Omar
But in America either intended or not Omar from Riyadh, the masjid is all the following: cultural center, community center, madrassa, and springboard for political organizations that represent Muslim interests in this country.
"I don't know what Willow said. The vast majority of Egyptian mosques are privately built and maintained. This is especially the case in villages and small towns where private mosques easily outnumber publicly built and run mosques by ten to won. Even in big cities, private mosques are exceedingly common. T Ministries of religious affairs or state security sometimes insist on apppointing an imam in a private mosque, but this is not very common."
But you can't possibly believe that this translates to zero government involvement in the religious affairs of the state. The Mufti is state-appointed. (He was on TV yesterday declaring it haraam to criticize an official once he takes office. How convenient.) Dar al Iftaa is full of retired state-appointed muftis. Mosques may be *built* with private funds, but khutbas are strictly monitored and sheikhs are prevented from discussing matters of state. (They'll let people get away with slinging mud at Israel, but only just; those who openly advocate Jihad are routinely jailed.)
All this serves to legitimize militants as an opposition group--they are, quite literally, oppressed by the government. Just because the relationship between government and religion is propagandist and antagonistic in Egypt, does not mean there is no relationship at all. Religious matters here fall very much under the purview of the Mubarak regime.
Willow meet Omar from Riyadh.
I guess a woman sees state meddling in Islamic affairs differently from a man.
Well in Bahrain, the mosques there were under the control of the Ministry of Religion (Islam only), it seems that no other religions are worthy of consideration.
What will the Egyptian imams say about Nasrallah admitting that the capture of the two prisoners of war was a mistake?
But Nasrallah and the flag of Hezbollah is under the admiring gaze of the Sunni Arab masses, how funny, and what will the Saudis do now?
Even the fundamentalists they allowed to flourish in their kingdom want to see the overthrow of the monarchy.
I agree with them, we need "Iranian Revolutions" in Saudi Arabia and "moderate" Egypt where state supporters will harass even muhajabas.
And I thought Arab men were overly patronizing and protective of their womenfolk? I guess when they support the opposition, they are worthy of sexual harassment, right?!
Either way, even immigrant conservative Muslims in the American Muslim scene are troubled and bothered by the overt state meddling in Islamic and mosque internal affairs overseas.
Ootti, when I say changing attitudes, I'm thinking more about stuff like honor killings. Ideally, the state would enforce laws against murder and remove loopholes about "fit of passion". However, for the time being we have to face the reality that we cannot always depend on the state to make things better. Sometimes, we will need to convince people to do or not to do something out of thier own free will. Once something becomes part of the culture, it will die out. The mosques *can* play a role in positive cultural change, I beleive.
- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.
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