I wish I could be there :) Good fortune to you, dear Sisters. May Allah bless your efforts, and don’t worry about what anyone says.

Ya Haqq!

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It is prohibited for women to lead salah not because
women are inferior (which they are not, they should
be respected just as much as men),

Focusing more on the question at hand, Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former president of the Islamic Society of North America, states:

Islam places no restriction on women to teach, preach, and guide both women and men. The Qur’an says, (Men and women are supporters of each other. They command what is right and forbid what is wrong) (At-Tawbah 9:71). There are many women today who are fully qualified to be jurists (faqihah) and give religious opinions (fatwas). They do issue fatwas and teach Qur’an and Hadith in schools, colleges, and universities all over the world. Many Islamic organizations, Islamic centers, and mosques in America also have very learned and knowledgeable sisters who participate in their masjids’ boards and involve themselves in administration, teaching, preaching, and counseling. Muslims should give them more opportunities, allow them and encourage them to become full partners in Islamic work.

Leading salah (Prayer), however, is restricted to male imams only when the congregation consists of men and women, whether the Prayer is performed in the mosques or outside mosques, whether they are daily Prayers or Friday and `Eid Prayers. Women are not allowed to lead such Prayers.

This has also been the practice of Muslims all over the world since the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). This Shar`i ruling is not because of any notion of spiritual deficiency among women. Men and women both are equal in the sight of Allah and both of them must be fully respected and honored. Women are allowed to lead the Prayer when the congregation is all women. They are also allowed to lead the Prayer in their homes among their family members, if they are more knowledgeable of the Qur’an and Islamic rules.

Recently some people have started a controversy about this matter of Shari`ah. Questions are being asked about the Islamic reasons why women are barred from leading the Prayers of men and women both. In order to understand the rules and wisdom of Shari`ah in this matter, following points are in order:

1. There is a difference between salah and du`aa’ (supplication) in Islam. Salah is a fixed and formalized form of prayer. Its timings, positions, postures, style including the wording and recitations were all fixed by the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). It is not permissible to introduce any new style or liturgy in salah. Du`aa’, however, is another form of Islamic prayer that is informal and there is no restriction as to who performs it and how and when it is performed. It can be performed in any language. It can be done individually or collectively. It can be led by males or females. In salah we are supposed to follow the Sunnah. We cannot add or delete anything from the salah if we want our salah to be valid and acceptable to Allah.

About du`aa’ one can say that since we are not forbidden to do our du`a’ in a particular manner, we are allowed to do it the way we want it; but in salah everything is forbidden unless it is allowed. For example, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) did not say that salah cannot be performed in English. He did not say that you cannot have salah in congregation six times a day. Now, based on this argument, we cannot start having our salah in English or six times every day.

2. In our salah, we stand very close to each other or as we say “shoulder to shoulder and ankle to ankle” almost touching each other. We stand in straight lines. We make ruku` and sujud. We are supposed to pray with sincerity and devotion concentrating our heart and mind towards the Prayer. For this reason the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) told us that men and women should have separate lines. The lines of men should be in the front area, then the lines of children and then women. The imam should stand in front of the congregation and should make ruku` and sajdah before the congregation and they should follow the imam.

The ideal way in this structure of Prayer service is to separate men from women and not allow a woman to be ahead of all men and bow and prostrate in front of them. Haya’ (modesty) is a special character of Islam. It is emphasized that men and women both must observe haya’ always and especially in their places of worship. The Prophet’s wife `A’ishah and his Companion Ibn `Abbas are reported to have said that a woman leading other women in Prayer should not stand in front of them like a male imam, but in their midst.

3. Some people refer to the hadith of Umm Waraqah who was allowed by the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) to lead the salah. According to the Sunan of Abu Dawud, the hadith says: “Umm Waraqah wanted to accompany the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) to the battle of Badr, but the Prophet told her to stay in her home.” Further in this hadith it is said that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) used to visit her in her home. He appointed a person to give the Adhan (call for Prayer) for her and he told her to lead the Prayer for the people of her house. `Abdur-Rahman ibn Khallad (the reporter of this hadith) said, “I saw her muezzin who was a very old man” (Abu Dawud 500). In other reports of this hadith it is said that the Prophet told her to lead the Prayers of the women of her house (Ad-Darqutni).

This hadith does not give permission to women to lead the salah of men in the masjid; it is restricted to home and according to some versions only for the women of the home. Most of the scholars of Hadith and fiqh did not use this as a general permission of the Prophet for women to be imams of the mosques and lead men and women in Prayers. If this would have been the general case, then many other very able and qualified women in the time of the Prophet and after him would have been leading salah in the mosque.

We pray to Allah Most High that we sincerely follow His religion without any innovation or exaggeration. Ameen.

Read also:

Whoever you are, go here:
http://www.progressiveislam.org/eid_al_fitr_prayer_2006
Read the articles contained in the links. And do keep in mind that it is not you who decides what is and is not allowable.
We pray to Allah the Just that we be protected from those who would enshrine oppression for the sake of retaining power over others, and that we come to truly emulate a Prophet who smashed the idols within his own heart before attacking the ones in temples. Ameen.

Yes, it is the insulting men cannot control themselves before a bending woman argument. If this were the reason, then let's have women lead the prayer from the upstairs or backroom and pipe it in to you guys. How about men pray on one side women on the other, a space in between and the woman leads in front of the women? There are solutions….if this is the real objection. It has nothing to do with inferiority or superiority, y'all men do not want to share religious authority and power.

Salams Laury, nice calling them out! I’m sure, though, that many men would be uncomfortable with even that. But, then again, isn’t the purpose of the calling out to expose that extra-Islamic reason for opposition? Nice.

- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.

Salaams Laury, and welcome back!
See, there is also the “women’s voices are just too tempting” fall back. Both arguments assume that the desires of women or gays matter not, and that, again, men are sex-obsessed beasts and women are helpless objects of desire. Perhaps instead of objectifying one half of the Ummah and accusing the other half of bestial behavior, we can treat each other with the mutual respect that humans offer one another, and if any males are feeling particularly beastly, they can pray at home- masajid are generally for human use.

Yes, Omar and Nakia, I am particularly disturbed by the lack of attention to personal responsibility.

The idea of the umma’s protection of itself from harm becomes over-emphasized and personal responsibility gets put to the side.

It is just going to be each of us, alone, on the last day. Better stop looking for the community to make excuses for you, right? My two cents, anyhoooooo

Not to be toooooo glib but, what is to keep women from being sexually stimulated by the sight of men prostrating and bowing in front of them? And what about a male imam with a sexy, beautiful voice distracting the women-why is it only women’s voices that are considered tempting? Are men supposedly more sexual overall than women? Are men less able to control themselves and if so isn’t it their failing and responsibility to improve their “delicate condition” lol-or as FM suggested, the men could pray at home till they feel capable?(Of course I believe men are perfectly capable of directing their own attention and controlling their behavior) I don’t mean to sound too casual but I just get so tired of going around on this one.

Really it is obvious to me that any person regardless of gender has the ability to focus their attention on the matter at hand, whether it is school, work, play, or prayer.

The softest things in the world overcome the hardest things in the world.
Lao Tzu

So are the men and women going to be seperate in the congregation? Are you sure you are the ones who are the most educated and well versed? Or is it just a powerplay?

The way we plan to do this is: men on one side, women on the other, and mixed in between. That way, the level of separation from another gender is left up to the participant, aside from the fact that we shall all be in one room. Laury and I certainly possess the neccessary knowledge to fulfill our functions- the idea of choosing the most knowledgeable is an ideal, but not always practical- in reality, most congregations cannot accomodate having to import imams on a rotating basis, or having constant retraining of a regular imam to make sure that s/he is the most knowledgeable. What usually happens is that someone is chosen who possesses the needed skills for the position, the willingness to take the position, and the ability to do so without undue hardship on any party involved. Laury exceeds those qualifications splendidly, and I would say that this system often works quite well, and I see no evidence of a “powerplay” in the works.

Nakia exceeds the qualifications.

Let’s be straightforward here. It is a prayer led by women to continue pushing against the marginalization of women from religious authority in Islam. In that sense, it is about power. We want men to share religious power.

Pretty Sad for both Men and Women, Allah has said both men and women are equal in Allah’s sight. But I guess Allah’s words are not good enough and the only way for us to feel that we can be considered equal is by having the same roles. So what will this get us, ask yourself. Isn’t this just truly to fulfill our own empty desires. Don’t get me
I am not saying that there haven’t been things done in the name of Islam which marginalized women.
Just ask what is more important, Equal in the eyes of men or Equal in the eyes of Allah? Plus if sisters felt this strongly about not having a male Immam because they feel lowered by that. I am sure they can have separate sister’s only prayers. Some people might say
“Oh that is worst”. I have never looked at a woman and thought she is lower than me and I am better than her. But I have also believed we are different. Just because
2 things are different does not mean that one is superior to another.

May Allah Guide Us All And Protect Us From Our Desires.

It’s even sadder that some people think that Allah’s words are only for show. May Allah guide us all,make us true servants and viceregents, and shield us from believing that complacency equals faith.

Seperate But Equal didn’t work too well in the educational system in the US as a solution for racial equality in education and typically, if something is a good idea, that means it works in the real world too.

Women can care about being equal in the site of Allah and also care about being equal in the site of men, it is not an either or situation, both are possible and good. Black and White thinking isn’t a very helpful or realistic philosophical frame of mind.

If women feel hurt, marginalized, discriminated against, angry, or that they are fulfilling their spiritual destiny/calling/duty/rights by expanding the concept of gender roles as currently practiced by Muslims then I totally support it. I don’t think men have the right to judge, criticize, or poo poo women’s feelings on these matters, you don’t have the perspective to tell us not to have these feelings, though you can discuss the merits of the ideologies. And if the feelings are there, they are valid.

Calling these issues “empty desires” is exactly evidence of a power differential and judgemental attitude. Most arguments I have read here and from other sources are well thought out and for many have important Quranic basis and support that reflect Muslim women’s wish to express their faith more perfectly.

Women ain’t “yapping aimlessly” about wanting to wear pink jilbabs instead of black, or forming groups to plant more flowers outside the Masjid, these are serious issues with serious implications deserving of both attention and action. Women have heard the arguments against enough, open your mind for just a moment and enter a dialouge long enough to ask how we feel and what our basis for these actions are. The women organizing this are exceptional and educated, who knows, maybe even more educated than you, you might learn something in the process anyway…

Let women take over the “main hall” and “main entrance” then and take the place as the “default” population at the Masjid. Men can form their own “seperate prayers” or little spaces in the basement. If the thought of that is offensive to men, then it is just as offensive to women. It is naive to assume that the current state of access denies women spiritual and communal power and equality.(Of course I personally believe in complete equality for men too lol)

Living out the values recommended in the Quran in our daily lives and with actions seems to me to be exactly the point.

The softest things in the world overcome the hardest things in the world.
Lao Tzu

“Equal in the eyes of Allah” is good for when you reach the Hereafter. But, until then when we deal with each other, it must be on terms of equality. And just because one person doesn’t see women as beneath them doesn’t mean that many others share that nobility.

- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.

OmarG:<br /> ""Equal in the eyes of Allah" is good for when you reach the Hereafter. But, until then when we deal with each other, it must be on terms of equality.” Life of a Muslim in this world is only to submit to Allah's will and prepare for the hereafter. So to say that right now we are Alive so we don't have to worry about the hereafter doesn’t sound right. This is what it seemed like you were saying.</p> <p>Xayaa:
I am sorry but because something didn’t work in the U.S is really not a good argument. Plus I know most of you don’t want to agree with this but there is separation between genders in Islam which again does not mean not equal. The other thing is that I am not so sure if we are talking about the same “Equal”, for me different but equal means equal in importance. But this idea of “Men=Women or Women=Men” is logically flawed. 2 things can only be equal if they are the same or identical. I am sure you and I can agree that Men and Women are not the same or identical (physically or mentally). People who say that the Jurist were wrong in there translation because they were Men, and because of that are considered sexist and biased are in my opinion as ignorant as the people who use Islam to oppress and abuse people.

Lot of these feelings are “Empty Desires” caused by the physiological pressures of society. Just because we feel a certain way does not mean that it is a genuine feeling. I am sure lot of you have witnessed, heard or experienced the way human emotions are triggered and manipulated. There is a lot of money spent on Marketing things that people don’t need but are made to think that they do.

I am not a Mufti or Alim, so I am not even going to try ad get in to Sharia here, but when I read things like these, lot of time the argument is made is that most of the jurist were Men and that there translations are biased and sexist. I just ask myself one thing, M I better than any of the Imams, caliphates? Because they were the people who didn’t think about what they wanted they just did what they were told by the Prophet and the Quran. I don’t know about you but I know that I can never have the kind of faith that they did. No doubt that life would be easier if we were allowed to do what ever we pleased but than it wouldn’t be a test would it? And again as I said before there is no place in Islam for anyone to oppress, degrade or abuse and it doesn’t matter to Allah if men are doing it or if it’s women.

“Lot of these feelings are “Empty Desires” caused by the physiological pressures of society. Just because we feel a certain way does not mean that it is a genuine feeling. I am sure lot of you have witnessed, heard or experienced the way human emotions are triggered and manipulated. There is a lot of money spent on Marketing things that people don’t need but are made to think that they do.”
So how do you know that you weren’t manipulated into making these statements? The ineptitude that you display seems to indicate that you are uncomfortable with making these statements on some level. Perhaps you should examine your own motivations.

Salam PrettySad,

>>but there is separation between genders in Islam which again does not mean not equal.

That's a nice theory, but that's all it is: a theory. Go anywhere in the ummah where men and women are seperated and you will find most often the women's side of things is NOT equal. You can try to wiggle out of this problem by redefining equality, but what do you say to the women who love Allah and his Messenger but hate the way they are treated?? Will you tell them to patiently bear the hardships? Will you tell them they are not good Muslims for wanting the same treatment and privelages that men get?

- A Salafi in worship, a Sufi in society, a Secularist in government.

Xayaa..

you make lots of sense.

Thanx Center, I appreciate that.

I also liked what FM wrote, I thought the same thing as I was reading that. Truth, feelings, and experience are always subjective. And I agree with Omar, very nice points.

My purpose was not emphasizing the US in making that statement, but emphasizing the connection between racial equality struggles and gender equality struggles throughout the world and throughout history. I wonder if that was purposely misunderstood to take a discriminatory shot at "Western Irrelevancy" to Islamic moral matters. Though I love to criticize my government, being wayyyy left of even the Green Party lol, I also appreciate many great things about Western culture and the people who live here, as I appreciate the great, unique things about all cultures from around the world. Every culture is complex. I am sure we can all find things to emulate/celebrate, as well as be good and pissed off about in every country.

Again I will bring up naivete, but this time in relation to the idea that one's religion cannot be influenced by very human agendas, whether that be gender, class, race, wealth or ego. The softest things in the world overcome the hardest things in the world.
Lao Tzu

This is ridiculous thing I read. I ashamed that
sisters are allowing the kufr to lead them astray.
The sisters is creating a very dangerous place
when they leave the protection of Islam and make
their blood lawful. I pray for patience and
repentance for my sisters.

So are we to take it that you are not attending?
Actually, with that poorly veiled threat, we will make sure that the entrance to the building is foolproof, i.e. protected against fools.

I am sure all of you have read 2 ayaats below, I now it doesn’t address the issue Women Lead Prayer, but I don’t have enough knowledge to talk about that so I won’t but if we are having mixed prayers do we (both men/women) in light of these ayaat feel that we will be guarding our modesty while praying (and also in general). Just because males in our cultures have used Islam to cause harm to sisters doesn’t mean that sisters should take a wrong path to fight against those injustices. There certain limits set on us as Muslims, I can not drink, I can not commit fornication, I can not eat pork but just because I can not fight my desire and urges doesn’t mean I should go and say that because of all the restrictions I feel oppressed and that we should change these limitations. These are not theories these are Allah’s commands for Muslims.

May Allah Guide Us All and help us live our lives they way Allah wants and not the way we want and I am sorry if I have offended anyone. I would like to say this again most Muslims don’t view women as inferior.

24:30
An-Noor (The Light)
Reveald at: Madina
Translations By
Yusuf Ali: Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their MODESTY: that will make for greater purity for them: And God is well acquainted with all that they do.
Maulana: Say to the believing men that they lower their gaze and restrain their sexual passions. That is purer for them. Surely Allah is Aware of what they do.
Pickthal: Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and be modest. That is purer for them. Lo! Allah is aware of what they do.
Sarwar: (Muhammad), tell the believing men to cast down their eyes and guard their carnal desires; this will make them more pure. God is certainly aware of what they do.
Shakir: Say to the believing men that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts; that is purer for them; surely Allah is Aware of what they do.
Sherali: Say to the believing men that they restrain their looks and guard their private parts. That is purer for them. Surely, ALLAH is Well-Aware of what they do.

24:31
An-Noor (The Light)
Reveald at: Madina
Translations By
Yusuf Ali: And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their MODESTY; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband’‘s fathers, their sons, their husbands’‘ sons, their brothers or their brothers’‘ sons, or their sisters’‘ sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands posses s, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards God, that ye may attain Bliss.
Maulana: And say to the believing women that they lower their gaze and restrain their sexual passions and do not display their adornment except what appears thereof. And let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms. And they should not display their adornment except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothersÆ sons, or their sistersÆ sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or guileless male servants, or the children who know not womenÆs nakedness. And let them not strike their feet so that the adornment that they hide may be known. And turn to Allah all, O believers, so that you may be successful.
Pickthal: And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands’‘ fathers, or their sons or their husbands’‘ sons, or their brothers or their brothers’‘ sons or sisters’‘ sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women’‘s nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed.
Sarwar: Tell the believing woman to cast down their eyes, guard their chastity, and not to show off their beauty except what is permitted by the law. Let them cover their breasts with their veils. They must not show off their beauty to anyone other than their husbands, father, father-in-laws, sons, step-sons, brothers, sons of brothers and sisters, women of their kind, their slaves, immature male servants, or immature boys. They must not stamp their feet to show off their hidden ornaments. All of you believers, turn to God in repentance so that perhaps you will have everlasting happiness.
Shakir: And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers’‘ sons, or their sisters’‘ sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! so that you may be successful.
Sherali: And say to the believing women that they restrain their looks and guard their private parts, and that they display not their beauty or their embellishment except that which is apparent thereof, and that they draw their head-coverings over their bosoms, and that they display not their beauty or their embellishment save to their husbands, or to their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or women who are their companions, or those that their right hands possess, or such of male attendants as have no desire for women, or young children who have not yet attained knowledge of the hidden parts of women. And that they strike not their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may become known. And turn ye to ALLAH all together, O believers, that you may prosper.

You’re right, Pretty Sad. The ayat you quoted are indeed off-topic, and therefore do not add to the discussion. As you weren’t there, you have no clue about how modest or immodest it was, so you’ll have to assume the best of your Muslim sisters and brothers.
For those who are interested: the service was lovely, Laury’s sermon was luminious. So was Laury.

How nice of you to completely side step the point I was making. If we truely feared Allah we would try our best not to put ourself in situations where we may not be able to live by Allah’s command. The outside world we can not control but atleast in the Mosque we can try an limit that chance. If you are told that you might catch a FLU if you do something wouldn’t you try your best to avoid that, so why not avoid something that may lead to us not being able to protect ourselves (we are just too smart, advance and muture for that right?).

P.S I never judged anyones modesty. Plus this is not off-topic, the topic is not just Women Lead Prayer it also includes mixed prayer (I thought atleast you would know the issues regarding this topic). But I guess you are right there is no point in discussing this when the only arguments you can give is this is off-topic or some liberal logic rather than Quran or Sunnah.

good morning Laury yes yes yes you are so right! I am muslim and I am not welcomed at my mosque so i pray at home, as well the Arabic women here do not and will never accept me. I would so love to be at a mosque where women lead the prayer. Have you heard of Amina Wadud, at all? I love her she led the prayer in NYC once, and I asked one of my arab muslim friends , someone I respect , what she thought about Amina Wadud and she replied “ she will burn in Jehennem” I did not reply, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I really and truly admire Amina Wadud and I think women should lead prayers, worldwide. It is the muslim men and their outright arrogance , and fear. Yes I said fear, they are so afraid of losing control, for even one second, they will not respect their wives even if the wife is a very good muslim woman, indeed. It is a control and power, and possibly an entitlemmet issue. Strong , independent muslim women scare these men I know from first hand experience that this is a fact not all men but a fair amount for sure and if thier mother spoiled them to the point of they never had to lift a finger, those are the worst ,arrogant men. I know I am married to one, I will be getting my college degree soon and I will be out of this marriage soon, he has no respect for me at all, because he keeps repeating all women are evil especially American women , and stupid comments like Egyptian women never argue with their husbands and they are quiet and submissive at all times.This is such a lie ,indeed, some women may be like this , but I live in NJ and I know some very loud opinionated and never submissive to any man Egyptian women, for sure. The men are afraid , they most definitely do not want to give up one inch, one iota of their power and control This is a well known fact

Salams, I do know a mosque. The Noor Cultural Centre in Toronto. Insha’Allah, I’ll be heading over there early for juma` in a bit. The men and women pray on either side of the room, the imam in-between. I try to stand just to the right of the imam. I feel at peace there. God is generous.

May God give you the strength you need to get through this period in your life. You sound tough as nails, you’ll make it. There are a lot of good Muslim men and women out there. There are a lot of folks who walk the walk of the Sunna. You’ll find them. God brings good people together. Sometimes it seems we have to go through a lot to find them, but I believe that hard times forge us, purify our character, and give us the experience to tell the difference between the beautiful and the ugly. Little by little.